[PB60] Lurking the Final Frontier

[Tarkeel]

You really shouldn't read too much into the FIN lighthouse numbers as they're not representative. Being FIN will influence which tiles you decide to work, and Jowy as the only FIN-leader found the workaround to the nerf.

[Tarkeel]

As a side note, I realised that even if we (somehow) manage to break them soon, we won't actually be killing them for ages. This:


is literally uncapturable before galleons, and even afterwards would be a real slog. I'd think Laz/Civac can stuff at least 15 units in there, which would take something like 30 units (plus the according ships) to crack. Maybe even more, and that's the best case scenario. I've talked privately to Tarkeel already about these islands, but I think they're too strong/defensible, especially for people conquering the owner.

If I could change one thing with this map, it would be these islands. I've come to the conclusion that one-tile islands probably shouldn't exist, they are too easy to defend. At the very least, I shouldn't have added hills, as they give the defender an even bigger advantage. 2-3 tiles would force the defender to split their forces to contest landings, or let the attacker land a besieging party.

[Charriu]

In addition I find 2-3 tile aesthetically more pleasing

[Thoth]

He's wrong about the island being inaccessible pre-astro. Chichen Itza needs to be captured and pop it's borders once, then galleys can move to the island via the fish tile (which Altun Ha cannot put culture on)

[Charriu]

He was talking about uncapturable not inaccessible

[Thoth]

He was talking about uncapturable not inaccessible

Odd that he would reference Astronomy when claiming it was "literally uncapturable". The city isn't uncapturable. It's just ridiculously expensive to take.

[El Grillo]

If you capture all other cities and blockade all the tiles to starve it down and limit commerce, would you be able to force a strike and get rid of some defenders that way? Otherwise, I guess at least it’s within bomber range of Chichen Itza.

[RefSteel]

He's wrong about the island being inaccessible pre-astro.  Chichen Itza needs to be captured and pop it's borders once, then galleys can move to the island via the fish tile (which Altun Ha cannot put culture on)

Actually, as I understand it, he's basically right - as long as Altun Ha has reached 100 culture. It will never put any culture of its own on its 3rd-ring tiles, but those of its third ring tiles that already have culture from other Mayan cities will remain under Mayan cultural control until someone else gets a cultural majority on them (or Altun Ha is captured or goes into revolt). So a captured Chichen Itza will eventually gain control of its BFC even with ALtun Ha still in Mayan hands ... but probably not until after Astronomy. (It's accessible to Rome of course, or to whoever captures Antium and pops that city's second-ring borders, since there's never been any Mayan culture on the tiles on that side.)

[JR4]

@RefSteel: Culture mechanics are weird. I wonder how different civ 4 warfare would be without the well-known culture bug where borders don't reallign as they should upon city captures.

[Tarkeel]

Seeing as we granted Amica's reload request, I don't see how we can refuse Mjmd. Both are pure misclicks with dire consequences.