[PB60] Lurking the Final Frontier

[Tarkeel]

Now that the map is finalised, I thought it best to start a fresh lurker thread.

[Tarkeel]

The first part of this post is an introduction to the map, spoilered in case you want to explore the map along with the players.

When crafting the map I tried to make as many traits and starting techs viable as I could, while presenting the players with a series of interesting choices. PROtective should have easy trade routes with the river and CHArismatic should like the lack of early luxuries.

The layout is a double helix forming three inner seas and an outer ocean:


There are three central areas where four players will meet and fight over; I've tried to model these as the caldera of an extinct vulcano:


Every player will thus have land borders with every other player, but their main rival will be the one they share an inner sea with:


The pairings are:
Mjmd/Thrawn vs Superdeath/Cairo
GKC vs Jowy
Amicalola/Vanrober vs Lazteuq/Civac

The player areas are largely mirrored apart from some luxuries; here's a closer look at the front and back end:




There are several good, early city spots, and it will be interesting to see where they will choose to expand. I expect most to go for the spots marked here:

Let's have a look at their start options:


The two obvious options are settling in place and on the sugar, costing a turn to move. While the sugar is a better site, I believe that both options have value and should be evaluated. Settling in place with fishing and one of agriculture or hunting will allow you to research AnimalHusbandry in the time it takes to build a worker, after which the city can grow on a workboat before pushing out the first settler.

There is however a third option: A floodplain is visible in the corner, and moving the scout to check it out reveals this:


Will anyone gamble on moving the settler for two floodplains and a plainshill? If they do, moving the scout will reveal this:


I don't think a cow, dry wheat and crabs will be significantly better than the other two options, even with four floodplains, but someone might take the gamble. If they don't, this makes for a good commerce city later on.

[Commodore]

Great variance of traits there in the end.

[Tarkeel]

Pretty good variance, but still half the field has picked IMP, and only two players picked an economic trait. There's also a lot of familiar civs picked, I think both Spain and Netherlands would do well here. Here are my thoughts on how the picks will do on the map:

Mjmd: Augustus (IMP/IND) of India (mysticism/mining)
Without simming and despite noting that there aren't enough forests for it, goes ahead and picks India regardless. I don't think the map is particularly suited for India, there is a few hills but not that much forest. Snagging the only INDustrious leader with the last pick is a classic. IMPerialistic is also a good trait, but I don't feel they work that well together.

GKC: Kublai Khan (AGG/CRE) of Rome (fishing/mining)
Speaking of classics, AGGressive Rome surely fits the bill. Pairing it with CREative is probably a good idea here. I think the map is small enough that he should be able to claw out a large enough empire with praetorians to make up for the lack of economic traits.

superdeath/MrCairo: Catherine (CRE/IMP) of Egypt (wheel/agriculture)
With the location of copper here, war chariots have an expiry date around T55-60. That should be enough to wreck someone's game, and maybe even wipe them out. I'm less sold on Catherine, who is another leader that have two traits that are excellent on their own, but when put together doesn't work as well as you'd hope. Overexpansion and a crashing economy is a real concern here.

Amicalola/Vanrober: Lieu-Ye (ORG/PRO) of Carthage (fishing/mining)
Doubling down on the economy with Lieu-Ye is probably a good fit for the map, but I'm less sold on combining it with Carthage. There's a reason why Mao of Carthage is meme-worthy, those Cothons are expensive! I probably would have advised picking Spain instead. (I just love how they planned their pick around grabbing the Great Lighthouse, one of the most sought after early wonders.)

Lazteuq/civac2: Justinian (IMP/SPI) of Maya (mysticism/mining)
I'm very impressed by civac's reading of the start, and without civac's reason behind this pick I would have consigned it to the scrap-heap, but I think what they're trying to go for is very interesting.

Jowy: Darius (FIN/ORG) of Vikings (fishing/hunting)
Jowy seems to be the only player who took my comments about PB58 to heart and picked a naval civ. After the changes to FINancial in CtH2.0 Darius seems to be the best financial leader for this start. I'm very excited about how this will turn out; his main problem is that he's sharing the lake with GKC's praetorians.

[Charriu]

Mjmd: Augustus (IMP/IND) of India (mysticism/mining)
Without simming and despite noting that there aren't enough forests for it, goes ahead and picks India regardless. I don't think the map is particularly suited for India, there is a few hills but not that much forest. Snagging the only INDustrious leader with the last pick is a classic. IMPerialistic is also a good trait, but I don't feel they work that well together.

Mjmd just loves India. I think almost nothing can stop him from taking it. Overall I think people mostly took what the love to play.

GKC: Kublai Khan (AGG/CRE) of Rome (fishing/mining)
Speaking of classics, AGGressive Rome surely fits the bill. Pairing it with CREative is probably a good idea here. I think the map is small enough that he should be able to claw out a large enough empire with praetorians to make up for the lack of economic traits.

CRE also has some worth on water maps in alter stages of the game. All those low-production fishing villages love free culture to connect their second ring sea food resources.

superdeath/MrCairo: Catherine (CRE/IMP) of Egypt (wheel/agriculture)
With the location of copper here, war chariots have an expiry date around T55-60. That should be enough to wreck someone's game, and maybe even wipe them out.

True, especially because that someone could be Superdeath himself.

Jowy: Darius (FIN/ORG) of Vikings (fishing/hunting)
Jowy seems to be the only player who took my comments about PB58 to heart and picked a naval civ. After the changes to FINancial in CtH2.0 Darius seems to be the best financial leader for this start. I'm very excited about how this will turn out; his main problem is that he's sharing the lake with GKC's praetorians.

I really want to see him make that lighthouse start work.

[Tarkeel]

GKC: Kublai Khan (AGG/CRE) of Rome (fishing/mining)
Speaking of classics, AGGressive Rome surely fits the bill. Pairing it with CREative is probably a good idea here. I think the map is small enough that he should be able to claw out a large enough empire with praetorians to make up for the lack of economic traits.

CRE also has some worth on water maps in alter stages of the game. All those low-production fishing villages love free culture to connect their second ring sea food resources.

All of the outer-sea fish are second ring actually.

Jowy: Darius (FIN/ORG) of Vikings (fishing/hunting)
Jowy seems to be the only player who took my comments about PB58 to heart and picked a naval civ. After the changes to FINancial in CtH2.0 Darius seems to be the best financial leader for this start. I'm very excited about how this will turn out; his main problem is that he's sharing the lake with GKC's praetorians.

I really want to see him make that lighthouse start work.

I think that's the weirdest start I've ever seen, and it might actually work! That second city won't be that much later than with a more classic opening.

[Commodore]

Anyone else find it funny that A&V want to push hard for an early GLH but moved away from the coastal start?

[Krill]

Since when did spears obsolete WC?

[Commodore]

Since when did spears obsolete WC?

It's a weird meme. I always think of WC as more "don't have to research HBR for a Horse Archer equivalent".

[Thoth]

WCs are good for a loooong time. 30h for a 5 str/move 2 unit? Excellent value per hammer.