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[SPOILERS] FFH II PBEM I Lurker Discussion Thread- No Players Allowed!

No, I don't think that would be a good idea. I think the request for a natural map comes with a certain acceptance that weird things are going to happen...indeed I think that was the reason they wanted a natural map! Let's just sit back and enjoy smile.

I'll post the world build save when I get home from work today for people to look at.

Darrell
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I've gotten a bit hooked on this mod again recently. Damn this SG!smile

Re: Magic questions. I'd really rate having some metamagic mana - retasking mana nodes can be really strong if you're happy to MM it a bit, can give some really useful free promotions if you retask before promoting adepts...
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I was talking to darrell via chat about the AV religion and the best way to leverage it. After reading a CFC thread I tried a pair of Sheam games, 1 AV that I retired from and one with the Chalid religion that I will win.

AV allows the 1-food-per-pop civic which sent me into vast unhappiness. Is the key just gambling houses + conquest civic? Is that civic worth giving up the awesome Chalid hero?

Also, how do you survive an early-ish AI attack? On Monarch AI armies seem to be roughly 30 units reasonably early. My tech path doesn't have powerful casters out in time, and if the AI pops out away from your army it seems hard to not loose at least once city. Should I be teching to longbows/hunters early to have lots of defenders? That seems to slow the already slow building even more.

FYI, my approximate tech path:

Ag->AH->Chants->Education->CoL->Exploration->Crafting->Mining->Calendar->Fishing->Hunting->Masonry->Mysticism->Writing->Philosophy->Early Religion if applicable->Bronze Working->Adept tech->Late religion if applicable->Sorcery/Iron Working->Engineering->Meethril/Gunpowder/Archmages. I generally backtrade for stuff like Math, Currency, Market tech, Sailing, other stuff I've not listed.
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Regarding the lack of copper, I went back and looked at the starts, and there doesn't seem to be any IRON near the Kuriotates or the Calabim...

Like Maksim said this isn't too much of an issue for the Kuriotates, but it does seem to weaken the Vampires.

Looking at the Malakim's start again, the only strat resource in sight seems to be the ivory and horse way far to the east, which won't be easy to reach with the barbs coming out to play.
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Tatan Wrote:but it does seem to weaken the Vampires.

Which might be a good thing considering all the uncontested land they have.

Darrell
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That was quite the stream-of-consciousness post from Pocketbeetle! I'd say he's found the best solution on how to handle the Illians and their nasty Priests. I'd be surprised if Charles doesn't accept PB's proposition, considering he has already more or less decided to attack Sareln's Svartalfar.
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From PB's thread:

Rowain Wrote:As I understand his post: yes

Yeah I wanted to point out that Charles isn't stupid and won't believe PB's claim he'd been building the Pact for some time, considering PB would have just gotten the point increase from the tech.

But then I thought this might be spoilerish... smile
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I hope Sareln is not clueless wrt that Priest of Winter rush coming towards him.
He has been happy earlier, after denying access to Letum Frigus, now he's writing some nice posts and sharing his view on magic.

I really fear he's not expecting PoW, given he hasn't been observing Selrahc's research path via C&D like pocketbeetle did and hasn't lost a word about a possible PoW in his thread so far, iirc.

I, however, would love to see more dark elves gameplay in addition to just the very early stages.
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sunrise089 Wrote:AV allows the 1-food-per-pop civic which sent me into vast unhappiness. Is the key just gambling houses + conquest civic? Is that civic worth giving up the awesome Chalid hero?.

Gambling Houses, Theatres, Carnivals, lots of other religions with their temples (incense gives +1 per each temple). Or use the population in other ways - Slavery or vampire-feeding if Calabim.

sunrise089 Wrote:Also, how do you survive an early-ish AI attack? On Monarch AI armies seem to be roughly 30 units reasonably early. My tech path doesn't have powerful casters out in time, and if the AI pops out away from your army it seems hard to not loose at least once city. Should I be teching to longbows/hunters early to have lots of defenders? That seems to slow the already slow building even more.

Essentially, it is very easy to fall behind in the early game of FFH where you think you are doing just fine - and then the AI blows you away. You can't really keep up with their armies in sheer size; so you have to outtech them.

For basic defense, I would tech to Bronze Working early and pick up a city site with Copper, as this turns your Warriors into 25-hammer, 4-strength units. This is very good. If you are Sheaim, you also have pyre zombies at this stage, which have collateral damage. That should be enough to counter most early stacks.

sunrise089 Wrote:FYI, my approximate tech path: Ag->AH->Chants->Education->CoL->Exploration->Crafting->Mining->Calendar->Fishing->Hunting->Masonry->Mysticism->Writing->Philosophy->Early Religion if applicable->Bronze Working->Adept tech->Late religion if applicable->Sorcery/Iron Working->Engineering->Meethril/Gunpowder/Archmages. I generally backtrade for stuff like Math, Currency, Market tech, Sailing, other stuff I've not listed.

I will point you to my earlier post in this thread about FFH early game being all about getting the early commerce going, and comment from that POV:

Why Animal Husbandry so early? It does not give you a commerce advantage, health isn't generally a problem in early game, and smokehouse is not a must-have. Skip it.

Mysticism is very late - get those Elder Councils out, the earlier the better.

Exploration can wait until your workers have nothing better to do (like build farms, plantations and mines). I normally grab it to help strategic or happiness resources come online once I'm hitting the happy cap, or mined the copper, and aim to go for Bronze Working next.

Code of Laws is early - presumably you go for Aristocracy and farms? Then you want to prioritise Calendar as well, to go for Agrarianism. If you don't go for Aristocracy, then you don't need Code of Laws in this tech path at all (pick it up in trades).

Fishing and Hunting are expensive techs, taken together, and they don't provide a combat advantage. Do Bronze Working after Mining if you have Copper instead. Even if you don't have Copper nearby, go for it - Pyre Zombies will help you.

Masonry - useless. It can wait.

Philosophy - why? It gives nothing to you at this stage.

Early religion - if you are going for FoL\RoK\OO, then get it after Hunting\Mining\Fishing. If you are Sheaim, why do you need any of these, though? Having two religions is a luxury, the second to be picked up later at your leisure when it takes a turn or two to research.

No Knowledge of Ether - consider grabbing it instead of an early religion. Build a few adepts to raise skeletons; either Death or Entropy spheres (what do Sheaim have these days?) will provide you with what you need.

Calendar - if you have a nearby city location with Calendar resources, take it and prioritise this tech. Your second and third cities should pick up commerce and copper, ideally.
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Ilios Wrote:That was quite the stream-of-consciousness post from Pocketbeetle! I'd say he's found the best solution on how to handle the Illians and their nasty Priests. I'd be surprised if Charles doesn't accept PB's proposition, considering he has already more or less decided to attack Sareln's Svartalfar.

Unless, of course, he judges that by building the Giants, PB showed tactical aptitude that makes him into more of a long-term threat than Sareln. Remember, PB will have three Giants and a bunch of warriors. Selrahc will have three Priests that he can park on a hill next to a city, and spam Ice Elementals. He can raze PB's second city with those alone, avoid the Hill Giant counter-attack by moving via hills and forests, and hit the capital.

PB will likely activate Legends world spell, which will give him circa 500 culture in his second city - is this enough for a +50% cultural defense? Will this be sufficient? Likely not.

That's why I'm really curious about the diplomacy in this game. Depending on how PB plays out his bluff, Selrahc may choose to call him on it.
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