Nobody expects the Chinese Inquisition: Isabella of China

[Mardoc]

Seriously. WTF is up with mackoti updating his thread? No, seriously.

[Gaspar]

Would you believe another turn?

Would you believe I now know why mackoti was so willing to give me that deal?



Question for the team, I'm going to hold the save a bit now... do I still settle there knowing I'll be in a cultural battle with Cre mackoti for the gold? If no, where should I relocate to? If yes, do I risk putting the settler there this turn and having him chariot snipe my settler? And if yes, how do I compete with culture?

FWIW, I suppose I'd move to the jungle hill SW of the cows, but that's a greatly inferior city site.

Damnit. I wonder if we're that close or he really settled up on me. Just a kick in the teeth.

[Bobchillingworth]

Seriously. WTF is up with mackoti updating his thread? No, seriously.

He keeps getting positive lurker feedback because his posts are excellent =)

[Mardoc]

Suppose we put the pyramids there?

I'm actually somewhat serious, plains cow plus plains hill + three choppable forests could be a decent amount of production, and wonder culture would certainly be able to handle Creative culture.

The main question is whether the city is worth founding when we don't have the rice to feed it with. The other reasonable option in the south seems to be the desert between the rice and incense, for still moderately decent production. Or maybe the jungle hill 2W of the sign. Or maybe we just abandon the south to Mackoti and race eastward per previous plans?

I wouldn't worry much about getting settler-sniped, though. If mack wants to break the NAP that soon after extorting it, it's on his head.

[zakalwe]

The jungle hill makes a good border city with flat land in front of it, a safe diagonal, and peaks for peeking into his territory. You're effectively playing an always peace game on that front now.

Forget the gold, and push east. No real opinion on the pyramids. Edit: some culture in that border city would be very nice, though.

[NobleHelium]

If you plant next to the gold, you can definitely compete. It's second ring to him. You'd need to get started on culture generation in the city fast though.

[Lewwyn]

Talked with Gaspar about situation and its easier for me to post the convo.

Lewwyn: okay
so this is the thing I was afraid of
because I feared the gold was between the two of you
Gaspar: Well, I was thinking
he probably settled th
err his chariot met me
because hes been on 4 cities the
so that border has to be 2nd ring
so the gold's not actually in his BFC
Lewwyn: nice
settle it*
Gaspar: so I think I have to settle it and if he breaks the NAP so be it, I can make him pay for it now
Lewwyn: you know
Gaspar: It might actually be worth the settler to lose the NAP
Lewwyn: you shoudl talk to him about it
Gaspar: tell him I'm settling there before he sees the save you mean?
Lewwyn: you should straight up tell him you are settling the gold
say I see your culture is the gold in your bfc?
and ask him how far away he is
I mean you want o be friends
Gaspar: I mean he really can't get pissed about that plant
Lewwyn: yeah I know you should explain you need the gold
Gaspar: both northern rings of its bfc overlap with croqueta china
Lewwyn: say I have no happy boohoo me
but I think you should ask him
Gaspar: well
Lewwyn: does he have gold or gems or a happy near his cap
ask him that
Gaspar: well
I was thinking that area could be mirrored too
Lewwyn: work out a deal about offering him wines for a non compete on the gold
Gaspar: so he maybe has gold on his size already*
*side
Lewwyn: yeah that s a possibility
again ask him XD
Gaspar: Yeah
I'ma put a settler there this turn regardless though
Lewwyn: is this too crazy for you? Lewwyn advising diplo?
Gaspar: not only that
but you're being more cautious than me
Lewwyn: well
its Mackoti, he won't attack but he can make life difficult
Gaspar: our soldier points are even, so he can't have much yet
Lewwyn: PLUS
I know we can deal with him
he's pretty reasonable
I learned alot from the PBem 18
Gaspar: Yeah, once both sides have copper and horses ancient war is asinine
Lewwyn: he accepted peace of giving my city back to me
that's a big deal
Gaspar: Yeah
So the other dilemma
Mids
Lewwyn: and yes Mackoti is definately interested in not having war
Gaspar: Yes or no?
Lewwyn: he also won't break any deals, I really think the thing on PB4 is that it was just misunderstanding
Gaspar: CC can get it in 9-10 turns
Yeah
Lewwyn: I say Mids yes
because it would be sweet to land them against Mackoti
XD
and we have the stone to do it
so...
Gaspar: Start in CC in 2 turns when I plant on the stone?
Lewwyn: just saying having stone early like this is a great reason to build mids
Gaspar: Yeah
Lewwyn: btw can I just post our convo in the thread so that I don't have to repeat myself for all the other lurkers?
Gaspar: I'll need some help with the empire management on the SE
Yeah, go for it. Was thinking about it myself
Lewwyn: BTW whats under the chariot?
Gaspar: for mack?
worker
Lewwyn: hmmm
indicates the gold might be 2nd ring...
Gaspar: It can't be
He's CRE and he settled that before we met
Lewwyn: maybe road for when the borders pop to 3rd ring?
Gaspar: yeah
that's my guess

[Gaspar]

After that lengthy chat with Lewwyn (thanks!) we decided to plant in the original spot. Bottom line, I determined that gold was at best 3rd ring for mackoti. As such, I moved my settler to the originally intended spot and will plant next turn. I'm also going to send mackoti an email to try and keep a positive relationship with him. No reason to antagonize him unnecessarily.



Here's the email I sent to mackoti. Tried to play off his first email where he wanted to talk about leaders. Also easier to hide behind Isabella, she's crazy.

Hey Mackoti,

How's things in Pericles-land? Isabella is still screaming about killing non-believers but since we haven't actually any idea what a religion is, we're just building stuff instead. When you get this turn you'll notice I have a settler and worker in a very vulnerable place near your borders. I actually had no idea you'd settled so close until this turn. Nonetheless, the city location is very non-agressive for me, since it has 2 rings of overlap with Croqueta China, and Gold is very important to Isabella, she keeps saying we need it to do something called a "tithe." I have no idea what it means, but she yells a lot so I'm after it.

Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I value your friendship so I sent that settler out with a warrior rather than a spear to let you know I 100% trust you to uphold our NAP and I have no intention of breaking it myself. I'm assuming you have a gold similarly close to your start, but I don't know since we don't have trade routes yet. Perhaps we can trade resources down the line - are there any happiness resources you'll have extra of?

Regards,
Gaspar for Isabella

[Gaspar]

No reply from Mackoti, but he retreated his troops. So hello, Huevo Foo Young.



Not a lot else to say. Stone City gets settled next turn. CC popped borders at EOT. I've cottaged the majority of the home tiles to help pay for the expansion, especially pre-currency. Getting Gold online will obviously help as well. Next up is chopping some forests for the Pyramids in Croqueta China and building the next round of settlers after that. See how quickly we can push out east. Still need to settle another site in the south for rice and incense, but I'd prefer to wait until we're closer to Calendar for that one.

We got mackoti's graphs this turn, so for those who like that sort of thing:

Demos actually paint a far rosier picture, since the graphs are a turn behind. With research on we're second in GNP, after the new settlement we're first in CY, production sucks but that's okay - we're Spi/Exp China and we've used the whip for that. I'd say I feel pretty good right now about our position. Downside of course - mackoti has settled up on us. Upside - we can settle up on whoever our eastern neighbor is with impunity now. Honestly, there's plenty of land here, I'm not concerned. Its clear mackoti got a great city site there, but that in and of itself won't win him the game.

Go team?

[Catwalk]

You're welcome to name a worker after me I'm lurking you to pick up tips and compare development speed with my own game, PBEM 25 Greens.