Team Gaspar - how PBEM47 was lost and where it got us.

[regoarrarr]

If someone is REAL bored, it might be interesting to assume similar-ish starts and see what Mackoti (or Serdoa or anyone else we're worried about) can do to get an Oracle time ahead of EOT30). Would be interesting to note what it would take, if it would be difficult, as well as any C&D clues that we can use to see if they happen in the real game (so knowing he has to go BW first - then we can watch for that with C&D, etc.)

Just a thought...

[zakalwe]

Yeah, that's not a bad idea, Rego.

I fixed the growth to 4 thing (I was trying out a fancy "avoid growth" trick but it was better to just grow into unhappiness), so here is the state on T31 of my plan:







In terms of population this isn't so bad compared to Lewwyn, since I already revolted to slavery and he will also have to do that at some point. I also have a granary that effectively doubles the food surplus in the capital, setting it up very nicely for a 6->4 whip cycle. I think the screenshot shows him with four workers though, so maybe his is still better overall?

Either way, I think beating EOT30 for the Oracle will be hard. I got pottery ASAP to speed up research, and then built the Oracle on the turn that Priesthood was discovered. No optional techs were researched. So there can't be all that much room for improvement.

The details of my plan:
Tech Agriculture, Pottery, Bronze Working, Mysticism, Meditation, Priesthood
Build Worker, Warrior, Worker, Granary, Warrior, Stonehenge 1t for overflow tuning, continue Warrior, Settler, Oracle.
The Settler is 3-whipped on T29, overflowing into the Oracle. One chop on T29 and two chops on T30. The forest E of the capital is roaded and prechopped to enable this using only two workers. The road on the rice possibly connects the second city (if we go with the banana site), and we need the health anyway.

Worker movements: First worker mines the sheep, then moves back to the forest E of the capital and roads it. Then he farms the rice and is joined by the second worker to complete that farm. Both workers road the rice, then cottage S of the capital, then cottage the flood plains. Revolt to slavery ASAP to give the workers more time for tile improvements. After the flood plains cottage, cottage the riverside plains, then have one worker move onto the GFH west of the capital on T24 and mine that on T25-T29. Then move to the roaded forest and chop that on T30. Meanwhile, the other worker completes the cottage S of the capital, prechops the roaded forest, and chops the forest 2E of the capital to complete on T30. Not a single worker turn is wasted.

Edit: Agree with moving NE next.

[Lewwyn]

This is driving me insane. I can't match that Oracle time and get the settler out. Nothing works. I simply can't improve the second city or with a 3rd worker without delaying the oracle.

[Gaspar]

If someone is REAL bored, it might be interesting to assume similar-ish starts and see what Mackoti (or Serdoa or anyone else we're worried about) can do to get an Oracle time ahead of EOT30). Would be interesting to note what it would take, if it would be difficult, as well as any C&D clues that we can use to see if they happen in the real game (so knowing he has to go BW first - then we can watch for that with C&D, etc.)

Just a thought...

This is a very good idea, though I'm less concerned for reasons forthcoming.

Either way, I think beating EOT30 for the Oracle will be hard. I got pottery ASAP to speed up research, and then built the Oracle on the turn that Priesthood was discovered. No optional techs were researched. So there can't be all that much room for improvement.

I think the tech is the constraint. While mackoti can always beat us by a turn or two on micro by virtue of fast workers, I honestly don't see how he can land all the necessary techs any faster than we can. Since we're skipping everything optional, unless he has a way to do all this and generate more beakers, I don't see it. I also expect him to build Henge before this, so that will take up some worker actions that could otherwise be optimized to accelerate tech. I could be wrong of course, but this looks pretty amazing to me. Outstanding stuff, guys.

I lied a bit - I probably am not going to be at full attention until the new year - my work schedule got futzed with for about the 40 billionth time, but lets be honest, you guys are both much better at this part of the game than I am anyway. Nonetheless, I'll try and run through zak's plan tomorrow and see if I can at least match it/notice anything.

Definitely NE on the next warrior move.

[Gaspar]

On a side note, this is probably how we have to approach all wonders - identify target, then sell out as much as is possible without crippling ourselves. Obviously too early for this, but clearly we'll want Colossus after Oracle since that's the biggest reason for Oracle and then I probably think we don't attack another until MoM. That should leave us quality time to develop in between.

[Lewwyn]

i got the save but off to dinner before report. Put it up in a bit!

[Lewwyn]

City #2?



It's a PH cap with cows second ring + gems and the rice is in second ring as well meaning it can share them. Zak how does this figure into you plan? From what i can tell it would simply be a matter of an extra turn to settle the city depending on when that forest 2E of the cap is chopped.

[zakalwe]

Yeah, that works nicely, the forest will be chopped on T30, just in time for the settler to pass. Those gems will go well with early forges.

[Lewwyn]

Got the new save:



Opinions on which way to scout? I'm partial to NE again, but I do see the jungle up there.

Also Zak do you think you could go through and give us a more precise account of the micro, build and worker movements on each individual turn? It will help me to see if there's anything we can improve and since the turns are coming fast now we're going to need to start making decisions. Also I think we're going to go with your plan since I simply can't stand the idea of losing the Oracle and your plan gives us both the best chance to do that and is not horrible in development either. Your reward is more work in the form of exact notations.

[NobleHelium]

So this plan will land religion in the cap then? I don't remember the last time a non-newbie did that.

Gems is very good but they're still unusable until Iron Working. You might want to consider another spot for second city.