So you want to learn about Ground Pounding?

[HerbShrump]

Cool!

I gather you never captured Orion?

Something I've thought for a long time... they should have designed the game so that BOTH objectives had to be met in order to win.

Just my personal preference. After all, the game is called Master of Orion.

[Sirian]

Originally posted by HerbShrump@Apr 11 2004, 11:46 PM
I gather you never captured Orion? ... they should have designed the game so that BOTH objectives had to be met in order to win.

I'm very glad they didn't. That would kill the diplomatic victory option entirely, and greatly reduce the game's otherwise remarkable ability to acknowledge when player has reached a winning position.

Defeating the guardian at Orion is a known quantity. It can be (and has been) formulized. If this were a victory condition imposed on all games, that would grow rather stale after a limited number of games, in my view.

For your own purposes, you could add such a limit on yourself if you prefer. No reason you could not create that effect, if you enjoy the guardian battle that much.


- Sirian

[Bam-Bam]

Thanks for reading and enjoying.

I never did capture Orion, but that would not have been very difficult with the fleet I had at the end.

I have to agree with Sirian--forcing you to capture Orion would lessen the overall variety of the game. Though I prefer to win by domination or higher (winning the vote when you have taken over 50% of the galaxy), there are times when diplomatic win is just as sweet.

[Sirian]

Although I read your report the first day, I reserved commentary. It was a fun read, and the fun you had with it came through. I kept wanting to see a galaxy map, though. Your text descriptions of planet locations were good, and helpful, but a visual image of stars would have helped me a lot. You did finally offer maps toward the end, but by then the main action was over and I never did figure out the shape and lay of those battles.

Then there were all those early invasions. I kept cheering for your fleet to arrive and chase off some of these poachers. I kept cheering and kept waiting... and waiting... and waiting... My goodness. It was the Alamo all over again. When are the reinforcements arriving? Ground troops? No, I mean the navy! Where are the ships? We took one good thumping at Mrrshan paws and gave up on the idea of ships?

But no, that was cool. You did a fine job. I can still lose on Hard, so I understand the nature of the situations you found yourself in.


- Sirian

[Bam-Bam]

Then there were all those early invasions. I kept cheering for your fleet to arrive and chase off some of these poachers. I kept cheering and kept waiting... and waiting... and waiting...  My goodness. It was the Alamo all over again. When are the reinforcements arriving? Ground troops? No, I mean the navy! Where are the ships? We took one good thumping at Mrrshan paws and gave up on the idea of ships?

As far as the initial land-grab invasions--the AIs only tried for Crypto and stopped after my troops held (2 tries for the Silicoids, 1 try for the Klackons). I never battled with the Mrrshans on the first war--it was purely a phony war, but its main benefit was my successful spying (Factory IV was a huge benefit). The battles were with the Humans and Klackons. For the former, I was building a huge ship (they had a huge parked on my dead rich world) when they moved some more ships in place and destroyed the colony. As far as the Klackons went--they parked one of their trademark small ship SoDs on Tauri (that poor world that I lost), and there was nothing I could build to counter that threat in a timely manner. The huge ship I built to counter the human fleet parked on my dead world was exactly what allowed for temporary local space superiority there when the Klackons settled that planet. By the time their SoD fleet arrived, I had a plantary shield and 4 bases online, so despite their ability to blow anything I brought out of the sky, their popguns could not touch my shielded bases. I didn't begin building any serious fleet until after my troops took Stingers from the Silicoids world at Dunatis (which was set up by another huge ship (one on one) battle.

I think this is yet another example of how well this game plays. The AIs came after three planets in that first war--Crypto, which held off a bio attack with its bases (the attacks stopped); Phyco, which was recently founded well into Human space, and did not have more than a base or two (colony destroyed); and Tauri, which was a poor world on the border of Klackon space.

I kept wanting to see a galaxy map, though. Your text descriptions of planet locations were good, and helpful, but a visual image of stars would have helped me a lot.

Dead on comment on the lack of galactic maps. I've revised my strategy for how to write my reports--stopping the in-game writing with a text window--instead grabbing LOTS of screenies to help jog my memory if needed. Future reports will have the lack of starmaps corrected. Thanks for the feedback.

[DaveV]

Originally posted by Zed-F@Apr 9 2004, 12:02 AM
Having Poor computers as Bulrathi is painful as a result, as they get fewer options to choose from and learn those options more slowly.

I just reread the strategy guide last night (after reading a similar statement in one of Sirian's reports), and its explanation contradicts the first part of this statement. According to the guide, regardless of strength in researching a particular field, you have the same chance to have a given tech in your research list (75% for Psilons, 50% for everyone else). Techs are indeed more expensive to research if you're Poor in a field, but I don't think there are any fewer of them available.

[Zed-F]

Hmm, well I made my statement about chance to have a given tech in your tree on the basis of Sirian's statement, so it looks like it's Sirian vs. the strategy guide on this one. Strategy guides have been known to be wrong before, though.

[DaveV]

Originally posted by Sirian@Apr 9 2004, 05:44 AM
Getting Robotics III early is like a setback from Industrial Tech 10 to Industrial Tech 15.

I don't think this is right, either. As I read the strategy guide, the first 2N factories on a size N planet will still cost 10 BC (or your current Industrial Tech level). Then you have to pay to upgrade those factories, then the next N factories will cost 1.5x. So you're no further behind until you start building extra factories.

[Zed-F]

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, at least not all the time. I definitely recall instances where I have been building factories on a newish planet, had less than my max at my current level of factory controls, and had gotten a new level of robotic controls, where the cost of factory construction went up immediately, not after I completed my first level of robotic controls-worth of factories.

I haven't looked into it in detail to determine the exact mechanism in play here, but there is definitely a penalty for new colonies when getting a new level of RC, at least if it is the first RC tech you have researched. It might be a bit buggy since sometimes when I have been working on one level of improved RC (say, going from RC II to RC III) and have picked up the next RC level, I have seen instances where I have completed the current level of RC's worth of factories before the slider text goes to "Refit" for the next level's worth of factories.

[Justus_II]

I have noticed strange behavior on the factory cost as well, and was trying to narrow it down. After reading Sirian's comments, I went back and checked the Strategy Guide, because I also remembered it saying something differently. (But as has been mentioned, Strategy Guides have been wrong before! ) What I think is happening, is that rather than building MaxPop*2 factories at the base cost, then refitting, then building MaxPop*3 factories at the new cost, is that the relevant variable is CurrentPop. (Similar to the way it will read MAX when you reach CurrentPop*2 factories, even if you are a long way from MaxPop*2). For newer colonies, where CurrentPop << MaxPop, you are building a lot of what should be 1st tier factories at the 1.5*Base price.

For example, for a typical Ocean 60 planet, with say a current pop of 20, I would have expected that the first 120 factories would be at base price, and then the next 60 at Base*1.5. But I think what is happening is that once it hits 40 factories, it refits the current ones before building any new ones, then with pop growth of 1-2 you may get 2-4 more cheap ones, then refit those, then start building the expensive ones. For a colony that is already near max pop, but low on factories, it's not a big deal, as most will still be built at the cheaper price first. But for colonies where factories > population, (Like captured ones, or occasionally rich hostile worlds), you start paying the premium much too early in the growth curve.

Anyway, that's my theory, I will try to test it some more if I have the time.