[Mjmd #52 no players] Working on the Homestead

[Mjmd]

Ok, out of golden age for 12 turns; whatever. Could have made it less, but sadly got a scientist instead of merchant (another mistake not realizing and switching earlier). Its all fine; stopped working scientist at Pancakes, so 11 turns until 2nd golden age. I would have to deviate to wait for a maybe scientist to bulb education, but I should be there at start of next golden age soooo that's good. El Grillo persuaded me I should just go straight to lib. Him and I want some prod turns for taj while in golden age. Cairo did tech engineering, so I'm racing literally no one for it.

Settled my crab city to put me to 18 cities!!!! Ok ok enough delaying, now onto what your actually here to read:

Something real bad happened to SD, which is bad:

Pin did another rd of whips. 8/10 of the whips he did were two pop whips, so question is where are all his knights???? Some are here, but considering number and timing of whips, hes holding 10+ (15+?) somewhere.

1 turn until spies know something. 2 turns until I'm positive. Do I attack next turn or turn after? 2 archers here makes it tempting to go raze pronto. Cats are for safety as I think this is most likely place he would try attacking. I actually went back in and moved most of this stack 1 south in case he does come in next turn so he won't see. I'm not going in with slow peeps here.

Next turn when I know a little I can split the fast people some knowledge. Have a couple knights south. Workers won't be in position for this front next turn, so probably waiting until 158 to attack for both workers and spy knowledge. Idea would be to resettle Harney and hopefully raze Belisarius. I'm assuming by then he would be able to reposition forces so I can't advance farther.

Even with a 2 front war unsure how much progress I can make. I'm assuming the reason he whipped heavily is to have a reserve stack for me. Anyways demos out of golden age. Only Jowy in atm.

Letting the courthouse finish; I guess.... I also caught that Maple Sugar was working a coast tile and moving it to a mine means Heroic Epic will finish next turn. You know I'm kind of serious about this whole war thing when Pork Chops is producing units!!!! That hasn't happened in a hundred turns ish. Also, what is a production base? I think I actually have one????

Surely someone has a question or comment now? Lurkers finally get more

[Lazteuq]

This is certainly fun to lurk, although I'm globally spoiled so I shouldn't say much. Here's a question though:
Would a potential attack against pindicator be intended mainly for the direct benefit of gaining cities and land? Or are you planning for some other purpose, like harming his economy/maintaining balance of power?
I guess this is a weird question because any war can have multiple reasons, really I'm just curious about your objectives.

[Mjmd]

I certainly asked this same question in the lurker thread in PB49 so happy to answer.

Going against the #1 power is going to be tough, especially as I firmly believe he is holding something back for me. Its not like he can't see that I'm the #2 power. He might not know I'm leaving my eastern flank pretty dry. My original goal was balance of power and keep SD alive. With how much SD power has dropped not sure if that is still possible. Now I could have done heavier whipping / could do, but I would rather easily beat him to rifles. With how much he is whipping he is going to be at knights for a long time.

But ya raze a couple cities, take that southern city. At least divert forces so SD war drags out longer. Those are my expectations. Maybe I'm wrong and there is no reserve stack!

[Mjmd]

Including both the link and putting it in thread because its a long song, but good. Builds up. Strong brass. I'm sure most people know, but Mars was the god of war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmk5frp6-3Q



I'm not going to lie, I'm feeling some STRONG disrespect. Like how timid did he think I was. Sure I didn't jump in on Charriu, but that was literally for THIS moment. I would have had he started collapsing, but there wasn't a point until then. There is definitely a point to going after someone trying to pick up 11 cities uncontested.

Northwest: I imagine raze and retreat is still the business of the day he likely has a whip cycle either this turn or next. I'm actually sad I left so many units in this mobile stack..... I felt for sure there would be SOMETHING!!! Depending how much I lose and how much he builds descent chance I get to raze a second city? I think I'm going to not fall into temptation and stay with a raze decision on Lake. Cairo has culture on the clam anyways, so wouldn't be a useful city for a bit and if I don't raze any other city his culture will be right up to it.

Southwest: Did I move an elephant and an axe backwards by accident, sure sure, lets move on to the fact that again he has NOTHING behind his frontline city. My mobile stack will be doing a run by and not engaging, not like he can whip units there while my slow movers bombard / other units catch up. I had planned on razing Belisarious, but maybe I try to make an actual push down here? This land isn't as good as his core, but its also safer long term if I don't finish off pin (which even with no reserve to be seen seems incredibly unlikely).

Probably building a trireme just so he has to tech optics to pillage and then I can pillage and maybe raze his island?..... Also no guarantee that is the tech he is going for and I doubt he has a trireme anywhere near.

To get a modern relevant #1 army Pin whipped a lot. His GNP and food are ok ish because he is still working those tiles, but his productions has TANKED. Even if I don't do a ton, I imagine a rd of emergency whips are in order, which will hurt. As long as I don't get a bad engagement (spies ftw, I should maybe have built 1 more), my #1 production should be ok long term (I'm outproducing Jowy in a golden age). Mind what little military production is coming from the East will probably stay there from now on, as currently I'm a bit thin. AT did move his horse archer stack somewhere not towards me, although maybe its hiding somewhere clever as I looked with my horse archer on way out and scout on way in. Charriu I'm hoping stays pinned with large Jowy stack in his captured city (last I saw). Jowy did get open borders with Pin, but 2-3 turns of lost trade isn't nothing. Mr Cairo did accept my fish for fish offer. He is either lying or going to go attack AT. Or Maybe Pin if I'm lucky.

-BTW I'm 4th in pop atm, which is annoying me. I don't actually have plans to whip in most cities, as most of my cities just don't have a good food surplus. I'm 3rd in food atm.
-Also, since known tech bonuses aren't going to be much of a thing and I'm trying not to scare people too much switching teching to like 30% 60% splits.

[El Grillo]

Good luck Mjmd!

[Mjmd]

All this posting in Pin's thread is making me feel left out and he hasn't even logged in to see what I did yet (I PMed him the war dec, so assume that is what all the posting is about). I'll take more hammers at least!

[Amicalola]

 Good luck Mjmd! It's way more fun rooting for the up-and-comers than the people who've been ahead all game!
How long-term do you see this war going?

[Mjmd]

I mean I'm a newer player. I'm leading in score by 200 pts atm so not sure about underdog in this game; although i was behind for a lot of it. I'll take all the support I can get though. Pin looks like he has quite the following. BTW this is my FIRST EVER MAJOR MULTIPLAYER OFFENSIVE!!!! Prepare for all the noobness.

Mind I am underdog in power. 2 front war helps. Pin took SD's newest city, but is still besieging the Mids city. I was wondering if I was going to that stack to withdraw or not. Nope. I got my round of whips out of Pin though. And he gold upgraded the 2 longbows in Lake as well as had a new one whipped in. He got a knight and horse archer for his trouble. I promoted first knight with double withdraw and instead of withdrawing it won at 9.9% odds! 

Jowy war peaced Charriu, which means he is going after AT. Charriu is therefore free to be annoying to me or he could try to retake his city in 10 turns while Jowy is distracted. Charriu's only relevant military tech is engineering. Mr Cairo I assume will jump in on AT. His main army is still up there.

Northern front and relevant info. Next on raze list is clackmas in 2 turns. Kept with the raze decision for Lake even tough I think I'm razing Clackmas. Depending on how things go I could resettle / settle some cities here. However, again I'm going after the #1 power and I do not want his culture there if he retook / pop / any remaining buildings. Maybe too cautious, but my main stack is down south. Again south is worse land, but more holdable long term.
Now chalk up 2 more mistakes. The first is obviously pted out by my sign noting the knight that in no way will be relevant I moved up there. Maybe I will have it pillage some cottages. Can you spot the second? (second one I see)

2nd) remember how way way back I specifically raced to found Waffles for future panama potential. Do you notice the lack of my lake galley and trireme ready to go through? Ya they are way over by AT. Maple Sugar pops borders in 3 turns so potential is there, just got lost in my preparation. 

South, you can see in log above I lost a knight to his elephant. He had 64% odds so not unexpected. He has a knight naturally finish in Belisarius which is super unfortunate. However Crook and Klamath didn't have anything new, so I must have caught them on infrastructure builds. I can fork those 2 cities with my meager run by stack here. I will raze belisarious. Resettled Harney will pick up sheep and gold anyways. Depending how things go I would like to resettle Crook on the grassland hill (obviously would love to raze his Maoi city in any case). I need to figure out where a 2nd combat settler is coming from.... 1st one is obvious going to resettle harney because sadly Pin wasn't very on top of getting the fish hooked up so its never been at size 2.

Other decision I made was just to keep 2 turning knights out of Maple Sugar. Trireme from south can come through once I resettle Harney.

[Commodore]

A good lesson: Everyone talks about combat workers, but combat settlers are the real killer app.

[Mjmd]

1st combat settler is ready to resettle next turn. Razed Belisarious, but the fast fun I think is over. 3 knights will reinforce Clackmas this turn (edited, for some reason keep thinking of end of turn as the next turn during war), he has 2 longbows in there atm. I only had 4 full strength knights of my own. Again wish some of those could be in the south. Southwest spy got discovered! Sigh. I literally just started a replacement spy in Sap last turn, but its still another 5 turns out. I'm pretty sure he will have enough knights to prevent me razing either of the main cities down there. Based on where Beijing was, assuming any full strength knights at all are coming down from there he should be fine because my southern stack is smaller. However I do get to raze Curry next turn. So will be 3 razed cities and a resettle for very little effort. Also, I've caused 2 rds of whips (2nd rd was only 5-6 cities), but overall 23 pop wipped since I invaded.

I'll probably stay at war. I don't really have an advancement stack though, especially with no pikes to protect all my cats will just get flanked away. I could build 3 galleys in Maple Sugar and try to raze his island city. Would be 4 turns of production there. That is 2 knights, but if I'm not advancing that is probably fine. Can always gold upgrade them later. Edit: went back in and decided to start this now. Leaves me the option to raze, ask for peace right before my next golden age.

2 more mistakes although I should be able to fix one.
1) I think I'm also going to lose another knight to that damn elephant in the south because I forgot to check its health before moving..... Grrr. Stupid someone giving him elephants for a bit.
2) forgot to pillage stone on way out (I even remember thinking it at the time, then just didn't???? will go raze next turn, if he wants to 1 for 1 trade of knights I think I'm fine with that.

Have 20 beakers left on paper and will then research Philosophy??? If I thought I could actually go toe to toe and invade the #1 power engineering might be ok, but lets just keep building a tech lead. I was wrong earlier btw Pin's GNP has TANKED.