[LURKERS] Why has nobody started this thread so far?

[Charriu]

It's T50 and I promised you all a first insight into my tracking tool. First of all you can all the data here: PB54 Tracking

Total Commerce

First Metric I tracked was TotalCommerce. This is the sum of all worked commerce yield tiles + trade yield + anything else that gives extra commerce yield. As of T50 we have the following ranking between players

Current TotalCommerce

1. Miguelito = 26
   
2. Ruff_Hi (FIN) = 26
   
3. El Grillo (PRO) = 25
   
4. naufragar = 22
   
5. Vanrober = 22
   
6. Superdeath (FIN, ORG) = 22
   
7. Mjmd (FIN) = 22
   
8. Mr. Cairo (FIN, AGG) = 20
   
9. Giraflorens = 19
   
10. scooter = 17
    
11. Elkad = 16
    
12. Chutulu aka The Barbarians = 3
    

This metric is a bit misleading, because there are constant fluctuations. Therefore I also looked at the cumulated TotalCommerce across all 50 turns:

1. Ruff_Hi (FIN) = 808
   
2. Superdeath (FIN, ORG) = 802
   
3. Miguelito = 780
   
4. Mr. Cairo (FIN, AGG) = 729
   
5. naufragar = 702
   
6. El Grillo (PRO) = 695
   
7. Vanrober = 681
   
8. Giraflorens = 659
   
9. scooter = 653
   
10. Mjmd (FIN) = 620
    
11. Elkad = 604
    
12. Chutulu aka The Barbarians = 13
    

We can already see a pattern here in that all players with a trait related to commerce bonus are doing better. Mjmd is the only exception, but we know why (warrior rush). Miguelito is up there because of his 4 cities.

Financial Bonus

Next we look at the actual Financial Bonus. Here I collected all the extra commerce a player (would) have gained if he was working Financial tiles. For example if you worked a coast tile you normally gain 2 commerce and 3 commerce with FIN. In this case my tool notes down 1 extra commerce. You will also find that I am tracking the CtH implemenation of Financial as well as the normal BtS implemenation for comparison.

I'm directly going for the cumulated Bonus. First the CtH implemenation:

1. Giraflorens = 69
   
2. Ruff_Hi (FIN) = 68
   
3. Superdeath (FIN, ORG) = 57
   
4. El Grillo (PRO) = 56
   
5. Mr. Cairo (FIN, AGG) = 50
   
6. naufragar = 49
   
7. Vanrober = 16
   
8. Chutulu aka The Barbarians = 3
   
9. Mjmd (FIN) = 2
   
10. Elkad = 2
    
11. Miguelito = 0
    
12. scooter = 0
    

Almost all FIN related bonus yields are coming from working coast or lake tiles at this stage of the game. Vanrober is one exception to this because they had a sheep on a river from the start. I still don't know how Mr. Cairo got so many extra yield, because unfortunately I don't know much about his empire (lack of screenshots)

Now let's look at the BtS implementation of FIN:

1. Giraflorens = 119
   
2. Ruff_Hi (FIN) = 123
   
3. Vanrober = 117
   
4. Superdeath (FIN, ORG) = 107
   
5. El Grillo (PRO) = 106
   
6. Mr. Cairo (FIN, AGG) = 104
   
7. naufragar = 99
   
8. Miguelito = 89
   
9. Mjmd (FIN) = 56
   
10. Elkad = 26
    
11. Chutulu aka The Barbarians = 3
    
12. scooter = 0
    

So the first thing you might notice is that all the numbers are much higher then the CtH implementation. The reason for that is simple. Everybody had a commerce resource on their starting plains hill. If they settled in place their capitol would have made 3 commerce as BtS FIN leader.  Exceptions here are Elkad and scooter, who both moved their capitol. Other then this starting anomality everything I said about CtH still applies here, most extra yield from water. Lastly what is the difference between CtH and BtS:

1. Miguelito = 89
   
2. Ruff_Hi (FIN) = 55
   
3. Mr. Cairo (FIN, AGG) = 54
   
4. Mjmd (FIN) = 54
   
5. Vanrober = 51
   
6. Giraflorens = 50
   
7. Superdeath (FIN, ORG) = 50
   
8. El Grillo (PRO) = 50
   
9. naufragar = 50
   
10. Elkad = 26
    
11. Chutulu aka The Barbarians = 3
    
12. scooter = 0
    

Here we can clearly see that the main difference is the extra commerce on the capitol tile. Most noteworthy is that Miguelito would have profited most from BtS FIN, mainly because he already has 4 cities.

Protective Bonus

If you look at the spreadsheet you will notice that I skipped over all the foreign and domestic trade. Those are the actual commerce gained from trade routes. I think for now those numbers aren't that interesting so we go to PRO. You will also notice that I track the 1.3 version and 1.4 version of Protective, but this early in the game there are no differences between those two. Just like with FIN I do calculate the commerce income, if everybody would be PRO. Here the cumulated values

1. Miguelito = 52 (0)
   
2. El Grillo (PRO) = 44 (56)
   
3. Ruff_Hi (FIN) = 34 (68)
   
4. Giraflorens = 31 (69)
   
5. Mr. Cairo (FIN, AGG) = 30 (50)
   
6. Superdeath (FIN, ORG) = 20 (57)
   
7. Vanrober = 14 (16)
   
8. Mjmd (FIN) = 8 (2)
   
9. naufragar = 6 (49)
   
10. Elkad = 2 (0)
    
11. scooter = 2 (0)
    
12. Chutulu aka The Barbarians = 0
    

No wonder that Miguelito is doing better here with his 4 cities. The numbers overall are lower than those for CtH FIN (I've put this FIN number in parenthesis for easier comparison). It will be interesting to see how those numbers turn out in PB55, but for now a seafood start with FIN looks better then any version of PRO. Of course this may change in the upcoming turns.

Tech races

There are two techs I wanted to look at here: Mysticism and Hunting. Let's start with the former. This PB saw 6 players starting with Mysticism and this versions +1 commerce on the palace. How big of an advantage this +1 commerce is, depends on how soon others research Mysticism.

1. Vanrober = T50
   
2. Mr. Cairo = T46
   
3. Ruff_Hi = T44
   
4. Giraflorens = Not yet
   
5. El Grillo = Not yet
   

So far we can say that Mysticism was at least ~46 extra commerce.

Next I wanted to look at Hunting. In this version the scouts are back to 2 moves, but they don't have any bonuses vs animals without Hunting. Will this lead players to research Hunting sooner? We have 4 players already starting with Hunting and these are the research times of the others:

1. Miguelito = T5
   
2. Elkad = T6
   
3. Mjmd = T30
   
4. Mr. Cairo = T37
   
5. Chutulu aka The Barbarians = T38
   
6. Ruff_Hi = T39
   
7. naufragar = T46
   
8. scooter = Not yet
   

Some further observations about those numbers:

Miguelito: Had no agriculture resources in his capitol, but AH resources. With that Hunting was the better tech to go for AH.
Elkad = Went for Hunting and Agriculture. Main reason for Hunting might have been his UU.
Mjmd = Found a deer resource near his capitol
Chutulu aka The Barbarians = Very interesting. Because more people researched Hunting, the barbs also got it and with that spearman barbs. Interesting side effect.

It will be interesting to see how these numbers change in PB55.

Misc

Lastly I want to briefly mention some other statistics. As you can see I also tracked the unit maintenance bonus from AGG, but so far there aren't enough units. Similar thing for ORG, which doesn't have enough civic maintenance to have a big effect.

[Commodore]

Gira's dotmap causing real physical pain for anyone else?

[NobleHelium]

There are a million things wrong with what Gira is doing, you can't really teach them specifically. He needs to read some vets games in detail and think about them.

1. Miguelito = 52 (0)
   
2. El Grillo (PRO) = 44 (56)
   
3. Ruff_Hi (FIN) = 34 (68)
   
4. Giraflorens = 31 (69)
   
5. Mr. Cairo (FIN, AGG) = 30 (50)
   
6. Superdeath (FIN, ORG) = 20 (57)
   
7. Vanrober = 14 (16)
   
8. Mjmd (FIN) = 8 (2)
   
9. naufragar = 6 (49)
   
10. Elkad = 2 (0)
    
11. scooter = 2 (0)
    
12. Chutulu aka The Barbarians = 0
    

No wonder that Miguelito is doing better here with his 4 cities. The numbers overall are lower than those for CtH FIN (I've put this FIN number in parenthesis for easier comparison). It will be interesting to see how those numbers turn out in PB55, but for now a seafood start with FIN looks better then any version of PRO. Of course this may change in the upcoming turns.

Not sure what you mean by this, since Miguelito isn't actually PRO. Perhaps the phrasing is just a bit weird since you are not a native speaker.

[Charriu]

1. Miguelito = 52 (0)
   
2. El Grillo (PRO) = 44 (56)
   
3. Ruff_Hi (FIN) = 34 (68)
   
4. Giraflorens = 31 (69)
   
5. Mr. Cairo (FIN, AGG) = 30 (50)
   
6. Superdeath (FIN, ORG) = 20 (57)
   
7. Vanrober = 14 (16)
   
8. Mjmd (FIN) = 8 (2)
   
9. naufragar = 6 (49)
   
10. Elkad = 2 (0)
    
11. scooter = 2 (0)
    
12. Chutulu aka The Barbarians = 0
    

No wonder that Miguelito is doing better here with his 4 cities. The numbers overall are lower than those for CtH FIN (I've put this FIN number in parenthesis for easier comparison). It will be interesting to see how those numbers turn out in PB55, but for now a seafood start with FIN looks better then any version of PRO. Of course this may change in the upcoming turns.

Not sure what you mean by this, since Miguelito isn't actually PRO.  Perhaps the phrasing is just a bit weird since you are not a native speaker.

Well of course these numbers are not real actual numbers. So yeah I should have phrased that better. With the expection of El Grillo, nobody is PRO and gets those numbers. I calculate all of these numbers as if the player would be PRO to increase the data I generate from one game.

Now one might ask, what is the point in calucalting those ficitonal numbers. Well those numbers are certainly not reflective of the results that an actual PRO or FIN player achieves, but I think it's also safe to say that a PRO or FIN player wouldn't play any worse then those numbers.

[NobleHelium]

I was wondering how the barbs could have a spear on t54. I'd never seen that before.

[Charriu]

I was wondering how the barbs could have a spear on t54.  I'd never seen that before.

You can see that more often in SP, because the AI reliably techs Hunting, which in turn gives it to the barbs.

[civac2]

How many civs need to know hunting for the barbarians to get it?

[AutomatedTeller]

This feels like a question for a dive into the code. What exactly is required for a barb unit to appear? for a spear, is it BW and hunting?

[Commodore]

All civs have to have a tech for the barbs to gain it; spears require Hunting and copper, not actually Bronze Working.

[civac2]

Are you certain of this? Pretty sure I have seen barb archers without having Archery myself.