[PB60] Amicalola and Vanrober: Gone' Fishing!

[Amicalola]

Vanrober and I have spent a while simming and chatting tonight. There are two things of note from our conversation and tests:

1) Sugar > SIP. It's barely even a decision; sugar is correct. My instincts were 100% wrong, while Vanrober sniffed out the correct choice.  

2) We are most considering Lieu-Ye of Carthage right now. This is for a few reasons

-> 2a) Fishing/Mining is much better than Fishing/Hunting for this start. Hunting's only purpose is +20% on AH, which is a shame; I really wanted to try the Vikings.
-> 2b) If we settle the sugar, there's an absurd GLH spot 3N of the capital. We can prioritise it hard. 
-> 2c) Rome is stronger than Carthage, but everyone plays it all the time - I want something more interesting.
-> 2d) Mehmed of Carthage is probably objectively stronger - but I want to try Lieu-Ye, and if I'm picking Carthage and planning to build GLH.... PRO is never going to have a better time than this.


Now let's see if we can actually land it. We have a couple of backups - Rome for Carthage (apparently in case Carthage gets picked and Rome doesn't  ), and Mehmed/Zara/Mao instead of Lieu-Ye.

[vanrober]

thanks god wwe didnt want rome. Hopefully SD wants something else than our lovely carthage

[Amicalola]

Whew - we got Carthage.

With two aggressive civs picked, and India, we should probably consider Mehmed. The last thing we want is to start out slow and look like a tasty meal for the Classical Bully Brigade. We'll see what Lazteuq and Jowy pick.

[Amicalola]

Well, I talked for a while with Vanrober, then I went for a swim to think things over. This meant that I lacked the moderating influence I cherish from my dedlurkers. 


My mind is telling me Mehmed.

 
But my body.....?

My body's telling me Lieu-Ye(s)!

[vanrober]

Yeah, we always had that feeling. Liu was a nice bring up from commodore, nice sinergy with TGLH, and it would be nice to see PRO after 100 turns with the buff of 100% instead of 75% domestic trade routes. That added to mercantilism sound really nice to have.

But having EXP sound much more optimum, a bonus into granaries for every city plus a bonnus for our Cothons sound really important, and on mi mind better than Pro. 

We keep on the learning sperience more than wining. SO Liu you are really welcomed!

[Amicalola]

What's that? You missed my overly-wordy, waffling opponent analyses in PB59? Well boy have I got something for you... In a few hours when I have time and finish working.

[Charriu]

Good to know that an opponent analysis is waiting for me there.

[Amicalola]

First of all, the players in this game are actually pretty even. We're probably the weakest, but not by a huge amount. Mjmd (or maybe GKC?) I'd call the best, but again not drastically so. I think any of the teams could plausibly win, which is cool! There are 3 distinct groups, with two early killers (GKC+Superdeath), two all-rounders (Mjmd+Lazteuq) and two slow scalers (Us+Jowy). It will be interesting to see how that dynamic plays out.

The Classic Favourite
Mjmd - Augustus Caesar (Imp/Ind) of India (Fast Worker / Mausoleum)
Mjmd would be my pick for best player here. He's got great micro skills, and a relentlessly positive attitude, which means he's not prone to tilt (unlike a certain someone ). He's also probably the best reporter, so he'll have the most thread activity.
I really like this pick. It screams 'Stonehenge!' and when Mjmd builds that, he basically gets a third trait. The techs won't matter if Mjmd expands twice as fast as the rest, and he has Industrious for Forges and wonder-building later. Mjmd is probably our biggest competition for GLH, because of Fast Workers and IND, too. While I think everyone has a chance to win this, I'd call Mjmd the favourite.


The Villains
GeneralKilCavalry - Kublai Khan (Agg/Cre) of Rome (Praetorian / Forum)
GeneralKilCavalry seems to have struggled with engagement recently, so I'm not sure what to expect. Overall, I'd call him one of the better players here.
However, Kublai Khan of Rome is a pick I personally dislike. It wants to smash someone with praetorians, but it doesn't have the tools to get ahead of them in the first place. Attacking someone with praets, even Aggressive ones, requires vastly superior production to work (see: unsuccessful 56, 58; successful 55). Maybe GKC's skill gets him into that position, but Kublai certainly doesn't. I expect GKC to thoroughly wreck his own game, and someone else's.

Superdeath - Catherine (Cre/Imp) of Egypt (War Chariot / Obelisk)
Speaking of wrecking people's game... No, I kid. As I touched on in PB59, I don't think SD is a bad player by default. But I do think he has a tendency to misread his strengths and weaknesses, and those of his rivals, which can hamper his decision-making. I think with a good peaceful pick, and a clued-in dedlurker to check his decisions, he'd be capable of putting on a good show (see Diplo PB).
Yeah, this is not that pick. However, I like it a lot better than GKC's, as Superdeath actually has the traits to get that food/hammer lead and kill someone. The biggest problem I see here is map size. Attacks won't be profitable in War Chariot's period of relevance, because there should still be land to settle. It reminds me of AT's attack in PB58. So ultimately, I expect the same of Superdeath as GKC. Their best chance might actually be to attack someone together, though the UU timing is slightly off for that.


The Doesn't Fit Into A Neat Category
Lazteuq + Civac - Justinian (Imp/Spi) of Maya (Holkan / Ball Court)
Lazteuq is better than PB56 made him look; his start was doomed, especially when pink-dotted by CRE/IMP Mackoti so early. Civac is great, and I think this is one of the strongest teams, probably 2nd after Mjmd (1st if Laz was lurking Civac).
Mjmd's pick has a really obvious gameplan, which I like. This pick... is the opposite. Religion seems to clash with Ball Courts (I don't like Ball Courts anyway). Holkans are good for a rush, but this map is decently-sized. I guess the pick's not bad overall; I just don't like Maya.   Anyway, this pick is somewhere between the fast and the slow teams for speed, so they might get left alone while everyone else fights. I like their prospects in that sense.


The Praet-Bait (Hopefully)
Jowy - Darius (Fin/Org) of Vikings (Berserker / Trading Post)
Jowy, like Lazteuq, is better than PB56 made him look (seriously, don't use that game to gauge skill). He's prone to peaceful play, though switched that up a bit in PB58. Honestly, it's hard to judge Jowy's play, but I think he's about middle-of-the-pack for this game.
We thought briefly about this exact pick, because if Jowy gets left alone for 150 turns, he probably wins. But the odds of that feels very low, and I'm desperately hoping that The Villains rip Jowy apart instead of us. Pretty please?


The Plucky Underdogs
Amicalola + Vanrober - Lieu-Ye (Org/Pro) of Carthage (Numidian Cavalry / Cothon)
The (probably) weakest players, rocking the fun (but slooow) combination? Well, that sounds like an easy pick for First to Die  a fun underdog team to root for!
Can we build the Great Lighthouse? Can we miraculously keep up in the expansion race? Can we avoid being absolutely savaged by The Villains at the same time? Lurk to find out!

[Amicalola]

Good to know that an opponent analysis is waiting for me there.

Not exactly. I decided to do them as I meet people, because doing 25 was pretty intimidating. But I think I'll edit them all into my first post at some point.  


As far as our pick, here's a more serious analysis:

I expect this plan to create a really interesting dynamic. It will be nearly impossible to crash our economy (don't worry, I'm sure I'll still manage  ), especially if we get the GLH (which we intend to prioritize HARD). That means we just need to maximise food/hammers to keep up with the others, while lacking an expansion trait, and sinking a lot of production into an early wonder. 

In addition, we'll be spamming cities close-together to take advantage of our trade routes, and doing our best to not get whacked by the various Bullies in this game (so we'll need to keep respectable power too). It's going to be an interesting challenge balancing all these priorities. I'm not sure if we'll sink or swim, but I'm really looking forward to finding out.

[Charriu]

Good to know that an opponent analysis is waiting for me there.

Not exactly. I decided to do them as I meet people, because doing 25 was pretty intimidating. But I think I'll edit them all into my first post at some point.

All the more reason to meet everybody.