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[PB63 Spoilers] Fabled, Amicalola, and JR4 are woven into the pattern

Amica's Opponent Analysis Soapbox  mike
To be clear, this is all my (highly subjective) opinion. My word is not the gospel truth.flower

Also, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the picks, Fabled. And the players, if you've picked anything up from your lurking here. 


Cornflakes: Boudicca (AGG/CHA) of Egypt (War Chariot / Obelisk)
Cornflakes is the first old-school vet here, and he's really good, part of the RB high-rollers club. Easily competing for best player in the game, although I give Pindicator the edge. He honestly just seems like a very solid all-rounder, that can play well aggressively, or build a strong economy. I think I know which he'll be doing this game... 

It might be hard to believe from this pick, but Cornflakes was the person who wanted to play a tiny always-war game recently. Crazy, I know. rolleye  We really don't want to start next to Cornflakes. I'm getting flashbacks to my first game here already. If Cornflakes can pull off the early rush, he might be a contender. More likely, his traits doom him anyway. 


JackRB: Victoria (FIN/IMP) of Vikings
I know less about Jack than probably anyone else here. It seemed like he did ok PB61, but he did die, so maybe that's wrong. He is probably a typical green - competent, but a lot to learn too. 

Instinctively I hate pairing Vikings with non-ORG, but it's not really such a big deal. If he wanted IMP so badly though, I would prefer IMP/ORG with Vikings, especially on Emperor. He probably has a coastal start too, picking Vikings. But Victoria is just 'basic good,' and Vikings seemed really powerful in PB60, so it's still a strong overall package. Will grow more dangerous the longer the game goes on, if PB60 was anything to go by.  


Mjmd: Napoleon (ORG/CHA) of Sumeria
Mjmd is a good guy, and he's gotten excellent at civ mechanics like expansion and teching. Probably the best player from the PB51 Greens group. But I don't love his wider decision-making, recently. In PB60, Mjmd had some pretty pointless Classical-era aggression against Superdeath, that arguably won us the game (his micro was still very strong). I am really unimpressed by his PB62 play, which also had great micro, but appalling macro. He doesn't seem to consider things from opponents' perspectives, which makes for a Really Bad Neighbour. Seems to prefer late granaries, for what that's worth, although the sample size is very small there. TLDR: Excellent micro, but a tendency to throw it away with pointless aggression. 

This pick is extremely aggressive. Mjmd is probably relying on his strong micro to expand well, before hitting a weak neighbour in the Classical or even Ancient era. Except there isn't really much synergy here at all, because vultures aren't much better than axes, so I don't really see how Mjmd pulls that conquest off (in fact, aren't non-AGG vultures worse than axes?). Meanwhile there's no expansion traits, so there's no edge in peaceful expansion either. I'm not sold. I'd give Mjmd a small chance to win with this pick, but the neighbour that he attacks an even smaller chance. 


Ginger: Gandhi (SPI/PHI) of Rome
I might have more experience with Ginger than anyone else on the forum, actually. I played my first ever online ladder-style game yesterday, which he was in. He did very well economically, although not as well militarily. But the main takeaway was this - Ginger knows his shit, and especially how to tech fast. He is not a typical green, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he wins this thing. 

His economic playstyle fits with this choice. Gandhi to academy/bulb civic techs, and Rome to ensure no one ruins his fun. It's a really good pick, actually. The only good ways to deal with Ginger will be either a very early rush, or a large dogpile. I expect good things here. smile 


Mr. Cairo: Suryavarman (EXP/CRE) of China
I consider Mr. Cairo fairly passive. In PB59 he opted not to attack me in several scenarios where I suspect it would have been the right call, for example. He also plays fairly quick turns, around the 15 minute mark even in the lategame. But he is quite good at building, and when he does fight people I think he's pretty decent at it (and he commits). I'd consider him one of the better players here, somewhere in-between 'my generation' and the super old-school vets. 

I really like this pick. Snowball out early, before hitting someone with either catapults/CKNs, or knights. Simple but effective. Honestly, there's not too much else to say about it. Cairo would also make for an appalling neighbour, not because of his personality but his pick, which is extremely obnoxious. 


Superdeath: Random of Random Augustus (IMP/IND) of Maya
Superdeath in Civ4 is an enigma to me. I used to suspect the older veterans were simply being dismissive when they said that, but now look where we are. He seems decent at empire management, but often falls behind. He is quite nasty on the defence, but his attacks rarely seem to work out. he is capable of diplomacy, but ends up in fruitless war often. I suppose I would characterise him as a highly emotional player, who has a tendency to over-react to perceived slights. Be very careful when making actions that effect him, because it's difficult to know what will set him off. 

Yeah, this is the pick where you think "Ooh, I wonder what fun and exciting mix the RNG will dream up for me!" But actually, it gives you something completely uninteresting like 'Churchill of Japan' and you have a terrible time. I do not think Superdeath is going to enjoy this game. Edit: Augustus of Maya. Yep. rolleye 

Pindicator Krill: San Martin (CHA/CRE) of Greece
I think it was really nice of Pindicator to dedlurk Krill's first game back. mischief 


But seriously, I'm really glad to see Krill back. He disappeared right as I arrived to RB, and the way everyone talks I feel like I missed out. I hope he joins more games. nod 

These two are both old-school veterans, and they're both really good. In fact, they're probably each individually stronger than the other 8 players. eek  Pindicator's micro is excellent during peace time, and he's impressive at war too. I hear people say that Pindicator has morale problems, but my personal experience sure says otherwise. The most recent example seems to be PB52, but he backed out of that when his state was basically under severe bushfire threat, so there was probably some irl pressure too. Krill I know a lot less about, but I believe he was quite aggressive? He certainly has a good reputation. Combined, they're easily the strongest team here.

Luckily, they seem to have realised that. What the heck is this? San Martin is quite anti-synergistic, while Greece is... well, it's ok. I would expect these guys to play their best, but it looks like they've realised what a stomp that could be and handicapped themselves a little. It's cool that someone's trying the new leader, I guess. Maybe I'm missing something, that's always possible too.


Bing: Zara Yaqob (ORG/CRE) of Mali
Bing hasn't done very well in either of his two games, but I get the impression he hasn't had much of a chance in either. So he's actually a relative unknown. Maybe this is his game to shine! 

What a weird last-pick choice. It's got a lot of strong individual choice, but nothing synergistic at all - more what you'd have expected us to pick. What it does look like is a highly defensive pick, between Creative and the Skirmishers. I think Bing might have been a bit scarred by his first two games (I feel you, Bing alright).
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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Always fun to read opposition analysis. You mentioned playing a real-time game with Ginger, could you please describe that a bit more? Was it blazing turn timer N-city elimination with score as tiebreaker, or something a bit more relaxed?

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Non-AGG vultures are on balance worse than axes.
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(December 3rd, 2021, 18:35)El Grillo Wrote: Always fun to read opposition analysis. You mentioned playing a real-time game with Ginger, could you please describe that a bit more? Was it blazing turn timer N-city elimination with score as tiebreaker, or something a bit more relaxed?
 
I'm glad, I love reading them too. The real-time game was interesting, actually. I'd say it scratched a very different itch to PBs - very intense, but much less deep. I found it through this discord server. From RB, Lazteuq also plays some games I think. Blazing turn timer, 6 players, but without city elimination, just going until it was obvious who would win (so more relaxed in that sense, I guess). This one took about 2 hours, which I think was the short side. The blazing timer was intense, although in quite a fun way. It made every second feel like it counted, on a lot of turns. Diplo is allowed, but is another area that takes valuable time away. It's an interesting dynamic. The average skill level seemed maybe slightly lower than RB, although with quite a wide range. A bit more casual too, maybe. But my sample size is tiny.

I actually played two civs. The first spawned with a borderline unplayable start, and I got crippled early on. But I actually won with the second civ - I took over someone with connection issues that had been converted to AI (5 cities, 2 workers; thanks AI smoke ). I spent most of the game frantically trying to catch up to the leader (Ginger), which was made quite exciting by the fast timer. I have more time over the next few months, so I might play more. If so, I could maybe start a thread here to record short summaries of the games.

(December 3rd, 2021, 19:59)civac2 Wrote: Non-AGG vultures are on balance worse than axes.

Thanks for confirming that. I need to play games that you're global lurking more often.
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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Hey, do you want another dedlurker too? I feel like there is some unfinished business here and hopefully there will be a more normal map this time.

@Amicalola: That 's an interesting opponent analysis. Krill/Pindicator is a scary team indeed. Krill has been around like forever and when he's invested in the game he's a top player. In Pb 39, Krill took a mad gamble and moved his Settler straight towards his poor neighbour for something like 4 turns. You have been warned. 

Mr. Cairo is indeed a pretty peaceful player but not to be underestimated. He knows his micro well. 

As for Superdeath, I think that he's improved over the last couple of years. He's sometimes overaggressive and can make some random attacks. Still, he builds a ton of units and it's wise to keep an eye on him at all times. Fwiw, he's been a close neighbour of mine twice in two games I played with him plus both games I've dedlurked - but surely he's got to be at another continent this time around?
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I am making a sim now, I will edit this post to attach when it is finished. So far I have already clicked 'unrestricted leaders' and then manually selected both Mehmed and the Ottomans separately. You're in good hands Fabled, I swear. smoke

And JR4, I can't speak for Fabled, but I'd definitely love to have you along. smile Interesting stuff, about Krill especially.

Edit: I've uploaded it. It was made on version 2.0.7 (most recent version), but I believe it will load up with any CtH version.


Attached Files
.zip   PB63 Fabled Sim.zip (Size: 11.74 KB / Downloads: 2)
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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(December 4th, 2021, 17:03)JR4 Wrote: Hey, do you want another dedlurker too? I feel like there is some unfinished business here and hopefully there will be a more normal map this time.

Wow, thank you! That would be great!

(December 5th, 2021, 01:26)Amicalola Wrote: I am making a sim now, I will edit this post to attach when it is finished. So far I have already clicked 'unrestricted leaders' and then manually selected both Mehmed and the Ottomans separately. You're in good hands Fabled, I swear. smoke

I really appreciate that. I haven't had the sort of time I was hoping I would this weekend.
Games: PB62, PB63
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(December 5th, 2021, 01:35)Fabled Wrote:
(December 4th, 2021, 17:03)JR4 Wrote: Hey, do you want another dedlurker too? I feel like there is some unfinished business here and hopefully there will be a more normal map this time.

Wow, thank you! That would be great!
Welcome JR4! Toot 

Quote:
(December 5th, 2021, 01:26)Amicalola Wrote: I am making a sim now, I will edit this post to attach when it is finished. So far I have already clicked 'unrestricted leaders' and then manually selected both Mehmed and the Ottomans separately. You're in good hands Fabled, I swear. smoke
I really appreciate that. I haven't had the sort of time I was hoping I would this weekend.
No problem! I have done some small tinkering so far, and it looks to me as though work boat first is better than worker first. The start is very fast, because of the forested bananas. Here is a (completely unrefined) version of the former:


If you'd like, I can start refining this opening and turning it into a proper micro (especially if you're still very busy). Or I can leave it for you. Or even better, we can both (and JR4, if interested!) try our hands and see which ends up best. Openings are the most fun part of simming imo, because they are so quick to run through.
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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(December 5th, 2021, 04:59)Amicalola Wrote: No problem! I have done some small tinkering so far, and it looks to me as though work boat first is better than worker first. The start is very fast, because of the forested bananas. Here is a (completely unrefined) version of the former:


If you'd like, I can start refining this opening and turning it into a proper micro (especially if you're still very busy). Or I can leave it for you. Or even better, we can both (and JR4, if interested!) try our hands and see which ends up best. Openings are the most fun part of simming imo, because they are so quick to run through.

I would love to see what sort of refinement you (and JR4!) can come up with. Now that I have the sim file, I'll try my hand at it and see what I can come up with. Thank you (both) for all the help, I really appreciate it!
Games: PB62, PB63
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I`ll see what I can do. That is a very strong capital with multiple food sources. It also has enough hills to be a production powerhouse. Going Workboat first sounds like the right call but it`s obviously good to have a sim supporting that decision. With an Exp leader it`s good to have a labour-heavy start.
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