[90 Spoilers] Saxony's splendour and Miguelusten's glory

[Amicalola]

Do you need to see trade routes to have them? That's common in the SP mods I've played, but I'm unsure about vanilla (and you'd probably have thought of it already).

[Miguelito]

You do need to see a connection into the other player's trade network. So I have uncovered a coastal connection to Ankara and the city itself, although I suspect just a coastal tile in his culture might have been enough.
What's weirding me out is that I am trading with Bursa, which I have not uncovered, but not his other two cities in the fog. But I don't really understand the mechanics either. Charriu to the rescue? Or maybe I should look up if it's in curious civplayer already.

[Ramkhamhaeng]

Hi, I investigated this problem today and replied @civforum.

In my opinion it is an error which leads to an empty build queue. It's caused by clicking/typing and was mentioned a few years ago. A re-login in the same turn do not raise the production list.
I do not know how to reproduce it. Maybe anyone from RB knows it?

[Miguelito]

thanks very much Ramk!

On the new turn...



I moved back in as I saw the barb city down to 2 axes and I wanted to avoid that Ari would just get it, but now our own city is in danger. We may have to 1pop-whip the axe in the capital, and will still need combat luck. Fwiw the wounded Aztec axe is at 82HP and has shock, ugh. If we keep the turn order with Ari playing first we can see next turn whether he attacked and then whip or eat the loss (say, his first axe gets a flawless win).

Was it an error to aim for 2 landmasses? But could I tolerate someone else settling 4 tiles from our capital?

Plemo founded a new city while I feel that we are like 10 turns away from our next (of course Ari is ahead of us as well). Looks like we may not get too far here. The snowball somehow won't roll. Might be the shrine maneuver as well.

Turn's not finished.

[Mjmd]

To be fair Ari doesn't know your city is empty, not that its worth the risk necessarily. Probably just wants to raze the barb city so you don't get.

[Miguelito]

To be fair Ari doesn't know your city is empty, not that its worth the risk necessarily. Probably just wants to raze the barb city so you don't get.

hm, I think he will keep it, and how am I going to stop him? With chariots maybe...
Anyways, even if he marches straight on us, I think I have a contingency plan that is expensive but doesn't force us to 1pop whip the capital down to size 1 this turn, so here's your silver lining.


I've been wondering why we are so far behind in expansion and military (we're global last in power )
Possible explanations:

1. the comfortable one - the mapmakers couldn't help themselves but to hammer down on Fin Inca with all the nerfs they got. Everybody else just has a way nicer start. Take Plemo's Ashoka, who has 5 cities and Oracle but could also spare the commerce to research Writing by turn 54. Again, I'm sure he played an awesome start, but I just don't see how this would have been remotely possible with what we had. And I'd argue that Ashoka of India warrants at least as heavy a nerf as Huayna of Inca. Sure I'm biased.
   
2. The Pottery->BW start. Probably that? I still am pretty fond of the early terraces, but leaving the corn forested for so long was probably criminal. However, we have consistently worked all the food and never went unhappy, so I don't know how much an earlier whip would have done for us. But then we had the corn at 2/2 instead of 5/1/1 for so long, and also a bunch of food went into settlers, which we always hate. All in all, when I came up with the Pottery opening I did not have the time to check against a thorough sim with BW first (only had an older, non-optimized run).
   
3. Not getting an earlier 2nd worker? As of last turn, we had 6*20 +13 hammers in unrealized chops within our borders. So a worker could have made a positive return by now, however that would have comeat the expense of a later 3rd city, which has worked Fin fish from the moment it was founded on. There's not many tiles I'd rather have improved.
   

If it's 2, I just have myself to blame. I knew that this was a variant and went into it for fun. Of course that can turn into suffering upon meeting your Agg neighbour.

Btw Rusten, are you still around and interested? Is whininess driving you away? Well you've put up with it in previous games...

[Mjmd]

Your supply lines are much shorter and if he doesn't have a spear coming it would be really bad for him to keep. Even if he has a spear coming he has to be willing to put a lot of effort into keeping all for a grassland cow..... (unless there is more in the fog).

When you balance the map around financial you have to balance it around later game, but obviously that boost others early game...... which matters a lot more.....

[Amicalola]

I don't think you're being too whiny. It's worth thinking about why you're behind, so that you can (if possible) fix it. Besides, it's also just an interesting question.

[Miguelito]

Saved the axe with a peacetime double move right after turn roll. On RB I wouldn't but by CF house rules it's legal and a regular occurrence. Fwiw that was not the aforementioned contingency plan.
Also Chemnitz got a Hindu spread, which is the ideal place for our first one and will put pressure on that cow even before we get that terrace up (which is being delayed because axe takes priority)

[Hitru]

You have traits and shrine to keep your eco going in late middle game and further. You just need to make sure you have enough land to make use of. I think you are still in ok position without having any actual knowledge on how your opponents are doing.

Do you have any change landing also Judaism for extra shrine?