I counted just over 100 changes in the Kyrub patch. I think I can analyze them and filter out the best ones. The problem is, not everyone likes unnecessary changes.
Just a quick update that I'm not yet dead. As soon as life permits I'll return to the rock stage. I also did some population calculations and will share my results when I finally have the time.
Yo folks! I tried and did some calculations. Meklar are excluded for the moment. Initially, I wanted to see how much you pay for increased productivity when you force-buy a single point of coloninsts, and they build the corresponding number of operational factories. I simplified things by making the population point and the factories appear instantly (in one turn), because of limited math skills. From the point of view of population contribution per BC spent, given beginning tech (most importantly, no cloning):
- Klackons are slightly better off, while everyone else is about the same, because
- as it turns out, Silicoid lack of waste almost perfectly compensates for increased population purchase costs.
As for net production, Silicoids really pull ahead with IRC, others pull ahead with cleanup tech.
What surprised me was when it occurred to me to calculate ROI. At the beginning, Silicoids of course get their money's worth back much faster than everyone else for growing 1 pop and building their factories.
I include my formulas (and should someone PM me their email, I'm happy to add them to the sheet), as I see that some people here are far more competent at math than I am. I realise these formulas are much easier to write than to read, but in any case, here they are.
So what does this tell me about my current game? As RefSteel also wrote, it tilts the balance towards growing population, at least until 1/3, maybe more if there's nothing better to do. However, I do also seem to be pressed for tech and military. Just like real life.
Expansion: Right now, I cannot expand. There are two unknown systems each 4 pcs away north of Tao, between Bulrathi and Alkari space that I'm going to get a report about in 2 turns. Otherwise, with just one more range (6), I could keep on going east both through the galactic core (the springboard planet is Barren, so might not even get there fast enough) and through the extreme south, with "better", e.g. more hostile planets, including a 30 Rich.
That would either mean Range 7 tech, which I calculate to be at 8570 RP + finishing Warp 2 and also not a guaranteed tech, or BOTH IIT 8 and… Death Spores, which cost less combined. However, since I'm not getting a second production base any time soon, Warp 2 is basically mandatory to cover the extreme colonisation distances.
That points towards Nuclear Engines + IIT 8 + Death Spores as must-haves.
Military: I need a navy last year. My closest non-hostile (I only have Terrans and hostiles ) is 5pc from Bulrathi space, 7 from Meklar. My Barren planet, Gion, on the eastern fringe, so a strategically crucial location, is in everyone's face. Barren's not exactly a life insurance in the 2360's. Those are my two exposed planets at the moment. I can still only design the basic 1-laser (with or without Mk. I computers) fighters. This calls for Warp 2, and maybe IIT 8, although I don't think it will matter on its own, lasers are still large at this point. I'm not opening weapons research, there are far more pressing issues.
Infrastructure: My production base is terrible, the only saving grace being the home planet and even that is only 2/3 maxed. What I need is to buy population and push IRC III, something neither of the two above priorities directly require. Easy and straightforward
This is by far the most thinking I felt I had to do during a game. I'm still a beginner, having picked the game up about half a year ago. What I'm hoping for is that this will result in establishing good guidelines so I can integrate them and thus won't have to repeat these thought processes in the future.
I'm establishing the following guideline priorities for now, since I have to make a decision, something I'm less than stellar at.
- MAX TAO ASAP.
- If below 1/3 pop and at max factories, buy pop. I will probably contradict my own rule and sometimes buy more, I know myself too well.
- Facts if not currently maxed, up to max for 1/3 pop.
- Seed if appropriate.
- Research. Warp 2 > IIT 8 > Death Spores > IRC III. Stop there (IRC stops research anyway) to grow more pop unless something great/crucial comes along.
-When Warp 2 finishes, make ~50 Warp 2 fighters and dispatch them to Gion. Anraq, with help from Paranar, can get a fleet together in a hurry should the grizzlies invade. I'm counting on them having a Warp 1 fleet, because that's how the AI tends to roll. Cryslon will be able to produce about 10-12/turn, and I'd really not like to hold its resources up for the time it takes to produce 2*50.
Have I mentioned I like to err on the side of greed?
Very interesting to see someone break it down like that, bravo.
Since I've been playing Master of Orion since I was 7 years old, I learned young to max out a planet before doing anything else in it, but I never took the time to second guess or examine if that was the correct procedure.
Paranar and Anraq get on the job of stabilising at 1/3 pop. I steal 1 click each away from Computers in favour of the other three fields. It hurts, but getting IRC III, getting better infra and then researching the rest feel like taking way longer than doing it this way, even if I end up with a better production base sooner.
- 2362 -
I discover Vega 50S, inhabited infested by Alkari (blue star to the NE of Ursa).
WingsOfMemory Wrote:Meklar are in red right? I still think it's worth seeing what we can get out of them diplomatically, especially since they might not be around for long.
Yes, they are, and the thing that would help me is… an alliance. It would immediately give me colonisation access to 3 systems, including the R30 one, exploration of the entire southeast (3 more systems), and I wouldn't need IIT 8 and Death Spores for the time being. The downside is also in the question, they might not be around for long. The current on-and-off alliance system does seem to be against them, but on the other hand, they're fortunately not erratic and have the largest fleet by weight. The Bulrathi, Sakkra and Meklar are all Aggressive, though. Other than double chance for war, they could steal the Barren planet Bootis in the centre.
In fact, that idea's just about crazy enough that I think I like it. It will at the very least least add spice to the game; I never sign alliances, let's see how one looks like. My meagre research budget could also do with some relief.
So I get on the T2 (telegtite-telegmite) broadcaster-receiver and ask them real nice if they'd mind not shooting each other up over third or zeroth party systems, a promise I can easily keep since I still have no warships. They agree to the NAP. I up our trade to 100 from 75, not something I'd normally do, but it will help push the relationship slider a bit.
I readjust research spending slightly, not doing anything drastic yet.
- 2363 -
Reports come in from the two 4-pc-north-of-Tao systems. One, Xendalla, is uninhabitable even for us, the other, Toranor, is another pitiful 15R. 14 pc form Cryslon, and Warp 2 is at 7%, so holding back on a colony ship for now (the old one would be overtaken by the new.)
The scout from Xendalla is routed further NE to the yellow, which could very well be Altair. Either that, or they and the Psilons started next to each other, and Alkari ships are there because of their alliance with the bears.
Cryslon sacrifices a round for reserve-building since Tao's going to need it from next turn on.
- 2364 -
Meklar relations are up to Calm.
Tao has received its shipment of 8 colonists (and is therefore, maxed for the time being).
Since Cryslon was nowhere near maxed, of course I just built factories (21 of them…) instead of a reserve So now the whole population gets behind the chisels as slipping outside of the ideal growth curve is bad but not using factories is a sin.
- 2365 -
Propulsion at 16%, this, being a Tundra, will be close. Notice the purple outline around the planet specs = it's within the nebula.
Cryslon will have readjusted to its new factory count after this turn.
- 2366 -
An unarmed ( ! ) Sakkra colony ship arrives at and departs from the Gion colony.
Propulsion at 36% at the end of the turn.
- 2367 -
Hell crystallised over. Every colony is at least 1/3 full (except P Seidon, but almost), T+10 taken into account. Since there is still essential research to do, and then, expansion, I'll start by cautiously approaching 50% using natural growth and adjusting facts accordingly.
Meklar are still Calm.
- 2368 -
Nuclear engines finally arrive, and the only option is Range 7 (8570 RP). Every propulsion researcher is fired.
The northernmost yellow star is Xudax 15S, Sakkra, so Altair and Mentar are indeed neighbours!
It's either maneuverability 2 or BC1. It's a no brainer because of the speed. 2/2 as in combat/warp speed.
Meklar are almost at Affable, the lowest rating at which I can realistically ask for an alliance, and are still not at war with anyone, and as far as I can tell (haven't officially met the Alkari and haven't even seen the Psilons) there are no wars taking place at all.
I spy with my little eye/prism/whatever
bad news. It could be headed for the extreme northern green star that I haven't explored yet, of for Celtsi, the UR tundra. But I can't realistically connect anything that could be an Alkari colony to the green. I can very well connect lines from multiple of their systems to Celtsi, though. Since radars have just picked it up I can't be sure if it's Warp 1 or more. If it's more, I can't catch it. If it's 1, I estimate the ETA at 6 turns. Anraq is 10 pc away from Celtsi. That means at most 3 LR ships. Anraq's production is 83, a twin-laser LR destroyer costs 85 with a targeting computer, 67 without, Paranar can build one and will only have one turn to do so, and reloc it to Celtsi so it gets there in 6 turns. Also, they're Alkari, so I won't really be able to score hits.
Some crazy tech notwithstanding, which cannot entirely be ruled out, I think their closest system is 11 pc from Celtsi (Range 8 + LR), unless they own the unexplored northern green, in which case it's within reasonable distance. And then I eat my calculations because they're allied to the Bulrathi and had been allied to the Sakkra, who have a planet to the far northwest, up to until last turn.
As much as I think I'll have no chance if it does come to fighting,
a radical half-way measure if I've ever seen one.
Then I realise I cannot relocate to systems beyond regular range. This happens before I would try and fail to do so, but of course after the long train of thought I outlined above. So make that a single LR ship at best, utterly useless. The Lime gets scrapped before even a prototype is built, all for the better, and behold the
not something I thought I'd ever design, but it's for a better chance at dodging rockets, should the colship be only armed with those. And with that, I consider the matter settled.
And there she goes, closing this short update. Cryslon's building Rubies. I'm happy I got to play a bit.
(December 8th, 2025, 22:13)RestorationProject50 Wrote: Don't you find the star map fantastically beautiful at this scale?
(Which map? The 2x or 3x one?)
Don't you find it in yourself to say something relevant to this thread? This is an AAR and related discussion. If not, please stay out of it and make your own post, don't threadjack.
Sakkra coeur! The green ship you see towards the NW in the previous screenshot is also a colony ship! Hopefully it's the same, unarmed design. Here I'm not certain about the AI rules of colony ship upgrades. When they do come up with a new design, do they auto-scrap the old ones? Or do the old ones get immediately upgraded even in mid-flight? I know AI colships don't play by the rules, but don't know by how much.
Cryslon could build a colony 2 ship in 3 turns to send to Toranor (15R) which would open up 1 or 2 systems for exploration. I decide I've been greedy enough so far and will spend a few turns building Rubies. Should I actually sign an alliance with the Meklar, that will probably happen in a few turns, and then it's colship production anyway, so let's squeeze them out, shall we.
This might be an eventful interturn.
- 2369 -
I get attacked at Xudax (yellow to the very north) by an Alkari wing. One colony ship (armed, as it moves forward) and a Dreadwing class large craft. I have 2 regular scouts in orbit. I stay around long enough to confirm that the colony ship is armed with rockets, while the Dreadwing isn't, and to my dismay, also confirm that the latter has heavy weapons installed, and say goodbye to my scouts as they're broken down into component materials.
The green star to the north is Exis, 60P, this might be the first super-50 toxic I've ever seen.
The Sakkra and Alkari colony ships are both warp 1 and are both en route to Celtsi. My scout 2/2 begins its trek and should arrive at the same time as the bird. If it's only missiles, we'll hold. If not, then not.
Celtsi's and the 60R Exis' existance (both 6 pc) mean I should actually get IIT8 and Death Spores, no matter what happens with the Meklar. Computer research takes a backseat for now.
Meklar relations are a smidge away from Affable, Bulrathi and Sakkra relations both at Amiable. I have a NAP with the former two, and I don't go for it with the Sakkra for obvious reasons. The Meklar and Sakkra have signed an alliance this turn.
The Bulrathi would be willing to trade Hyper-V missiles for Nuclear engines. I decline as I have no bases and I'm not under attack, so it would only help them for the time being.
- 2370 -
I misjudged the relationship slider, still a while until I'm on good enough terms with the cyborgs.
- 2371 -
- 2372 -
Sakkra colony ship warps in at Celtsi, and warps out.
I'm at 55 Rubies, which I deem enough for the time being, as I'm not planning on doing any actual expeditionary fighting, and could very much do with the extra research. With that, IIT 8 enters the percentage (singular).
That ship, which I skillfully ignored until now, is probably headed for Gion, and will be met with the first two batches (27) of rubies. If that isn't enough, remember, I cannot retreat and re-orbit Gion, I have to go somewhere else. In that scenario, I will probably bounce between Vox (sorry, bears!) and Gion while I consolidate my "forces". In order to break my non-aggro, I would have to actually fire on their ships and destroy something. Vox still has no bases, and no fleet in orbit currently. I can always retreat immediately should the situation change.
I realise I can still colonise A planet. Paranar can get the colony ship ready in 6 years, which is absolutely OK as the planet is tiny and radiated. Cryslon's better off researching. Also, ETA 5 v 7, so I'll only lose a single year.
I spot 25 Alkari transport headed for I have no idea where. There seems to be no logical place. Since it was picked up by a ship scanner, I won't be able to track it but let's see if I can at least determine the direction it's going.
- 2373 -
The Alkari transports moved almost directly to the West, which is still an enigma. Tao is in the way but they definitely can't land there, and only bear planets beyond that. It will disappear from the scanners next turn, until Tao picks it up probably 2 turns from now.
The Dragon-class Sakkra ship is NOT headed for Gion, but is on a mission to the deep south. Either Crius, which is less likely based on the Mk I eyeball, but more likely from a propulsion tech view, or the Toxic planet to Crius' SE.
Tao's maxed on population at 20, I sent 9 transports beyond the initial 8, and 1 natural growth, at the very last moment. On to more facts, and then, RESERVE MONEY!
IIT 5%, DS 6%.
Meklar-Sakkra alliance is gone. I dread to imagine all the paperwork that must have gone down since 2300. That includes the speeches delivered.
- 2374 -
Alkari colship is due at Celtsi next turn, my scout 2/2 has just arrived. That means I overestimated its arrival by a turn. It was 7, not 6.
Then again, had I done this 6 turns ago (the ship was right above the system) it MIGHT have helped For RP50, this is the original scale.
The Sakkra Dragon is definitely headed for the Toxic world. Why send it there? (Extended range not required due to the 3 second alliance with the Meklar.) Does a part of Saurak the Feisty's spirit loom over here to infect Emperor Hissa?
Brace for incoming raven about to drop a walnut on your head!
- 2375 -
I patiently advance slightly and try and wait out the rockets. The colony ship has at least one heavy laser (which misses my regular scout.) Enjoy your gems, birds! The retreat commences "without" "incident", with a farewell laser shot that also misses.
And then…
No colonies display because I do not have planetary information right now? The colony ship has disappeared, and I would be able to see it on my ship scanners were it still there. I then realise I can't split a retreating fleet, will take 4 turns to arrive at Exis, where I'll finally be able to separate them. I think the Alkari did establish a colony. I send the scout orbiting Exis (Toxic, safe to leave unguarded) to investigate.
I could still only do it with LR (X in my terminology) ships, but I wonder whether shooting down incoming transports of a race you haven't established diplomatic relations with yet constitutes an act of war. (Not going to do it, but if someone knows, please share. I, for my part, "CBA to OSG".)
Construction and Planetology are at 15% and 21%, respectively, Meklar relations still Calm. I could gift them T+10 or the scanner, if I were that desparate. I'm definitely not giving away Planetology tech, my one current edge as Silicoids. Giving away Computer tech is always painful, even if they gain absolutely no use out of it, since the AI has maphack anyway, it's just the computer level, as they must have advanced beyond tier 1 by now, them being the experts at it. Being on the brink of the two breakthroughs required also makes waiting it out more desirable.
That makes this a planetary slider adjustment turn, something which I actually generally enjoy, for some reason.
I found another reason why the Alkari colship might have disappeared. If it did NOT have at least a Tundra base, then because of the cancelled alliances, it could have run out of supply. This is an instance where my inexperience shows: I do not yet have all these possibilities internalised as a mental checklist, and they occur to me piecemeal.
- 2376 -
IIT 8 is done, I passionately kiss every member the research team before giving them the boot. Well, at least they got something out of it. I choose Battle Suits (5290) over their huge ARS (8570). We'll need security, which a 4000+ BC ship lacking any cool gadgets is not. Not that I'll be researching it now anyway.
Planetology receives the Construction research collective, working on extremely dangerous bioweapons that somehow enable living quarters to be installed on a smaller ship, now at 35%.
I check to be safe, I'm NINE spaces short of a LR large colony ship (19 if going nuclear). Why can't it be 1.97 million colonists, for Obsidian's sake? Curse MY bureaucracy! These are times I wish I could spawn as Erratic.
Part of my reporting delay, apart from preparing for a concert, is due to the fact that being fed up with truly Sili growth, I had to calm my nerves with playing a quick Klackon game, where I could build 7 toxic colony ships off of all of my maxxed 5 planets in 3 turns between 2382-85, while being surrounded by erratic Meklar, erratic Sakkra, and erratic Psilons! (I love this game!) Yes, that meant 3 early wars. Following a few invasions, I very soon after glassed the stained glass out of every colony on the map, >1000 anti-matter bombers/turn (AMB courtesy of some Sakkra factory), good times, and was happy ever after.
Meklar are… Calm. I never before realised how long the distance is between Amiable-Calm and Calm-Affable. (Doesn't affable literally mean ape-like? I checked, and unfortunately, it doesn't.)
Tao will complete its factories in 2 turns.
Also, this is freaking me out every turn even though I know they can't possibly be headed for Tao.
- 2377 -
Twenty-three-and-seventy-seven;
The rocks thought they were going to heaven!
If the Alkari transports are headed to Celtsi, they were dispatched BEFORE a colony was established, and that's impossible, isn't it? Are they bound for Stalaz? What for? Sending colonists to your ally's planet? The game doesn't allow for mixed-race colonies, unfortunately, you know.
I'd love a replay feature after a game is finished, without the fog of war.
Death Spores are in! Another emotional moment before the staff is "promoted" to the IT department, putting IRC at 13%, which will promptly decrease because of colony ship production. The one and only IT+30 (another 8570, level 14 (level*level*35*1.25, round down to the nearest 10)) is chosen. 35 is the Hard difficulty modifier. 1.25 because we're terrible.
Finally, Colony X 2 is in!
The Paranar-Tao-Celtsi route takes just as much as a direct route. In the meanwhile, I'll get a report on Celtsi's status. The ship is ready next turn. Cryslon begins colony ship production (2 turns!) that will go to southern Esper, the R30P.
Next priority: Bootis, as it's the least hostile and is in a crucial location.
) is 5pc from Bulrathi space, 7 from Meklar. My Barren planet, Gion, on the eastern fringe, so a strategically crucial location, is in everyone's face. Barren's not exactly a life insurance in the 2360's. Those are my two exposed planets at the moment. I can still only design the basic 1-laser (with or without Mk. I computers) fighters. This calls for Warp 2, and maybe IIT 8, although I don't think it will matter on its own, lasers are still large at this point. I'm not opening weapons research, there are far more pressing issues.
So now the whole population gets behind the chisels as slipping outside of the ideal growth curve is bad but not using factories is a sin.
For RP50, this is the original scale.