Alhambram toast his first PBEM game with Russian vodka

[Alhambram]

Alright, it is my first time playing multiplayer at Realms Beyond.

I need to make a choice from India, Norway or Russia. At this moment i am leaning towards Russia, it seems better option than India and Norway with current PBEM 2 settings.

Any dedlurkers are welcome!

Hopefully everyone are going have fun with this game, all other players and you lurkers included!

[Alhambram]

Since i have make a choice from three civilizations, let's take a closer look at all of them. Starting with India.

   

Gandhi of India has a strong flavor for religion, especially if multiple religions are present. Gandhi gains 5 faith for every religion and receives follower belief bonus from any religion in a city if there is at least one follower in city. However i doubt that other players are going for religion here, so it is unlikely that i can make use of bonuses from multiple religions. Things would be interesting if Egypt (possible early Stonehenge), Arabia, China (also possible early Stonehenge) or Spain are chosen by other players. But as i look at PBEM1, Religions and Stonehenge are simply ignored by all players in PBEM1. In a possible variant PBEM where only religious victory is allowed, Gandhi would be one of best choice to play with.

Moving to military aspect, India offers two things here: firstly war weariness is doubled for enemy civilizations that fights against India, that would make less desirable for others to attack India. Secondly India gets Varu (elephant) as replacement for horseman, compared with Horseman Varu is slower, stronger, more production and more maintenance cost. Varu's most dangerous aspect is its bonus to decrease 5 strength of adjacent enemy units and that penalty for enemy units is cumulative.   Which means if an enemy unit is surrounded by six Varu's, it loses 30 strength!

Lastly there is unique improvement for India: Stepwell. It adds extra faith (if next holy site), food and housing. It allows India to grow cities faster than other civilizations. 

Conclusion: India looks interesting civilization to play with their ability to grow cities faster and stomp enemies with elephants. Also war weariness should work as sort of deterrent to attack me, but i wouldn't expect too much from it. Its religious side make India less good choice in this PBEM, since it is unlikely that all other players are founding religion themselves. I probably wait a bit with making a choice for which civilization i am going to play with until other players has chosen their civilization to look if India is possible choice. 

   

Harald Hardrada of Norway loves invasion from seas above any else and the Norwegian bonuses reflect it. Norway's units can enter ocean tiles already in classical age with researching shipbuilding while all other civilizations need to research cartography which is an renaissance technology. And on top of that additional embarking and disembarking movement costs are ignored and Norway can build Berserker unit which gets extra movement points in enemy territory. If you are searching for civilization that can catch player with his pants down, Norway is most suitable civilization for it. 
In addition of Berserker, Norway also can build Longships which are stronger and gets more movement points than galley. Its best ability is coastal raiding which allow Longships pillage any land tiles adjacent coast and they even are able to capture civilian units as builders or settlers. So beware of oceans and coasts if you are playing against Norway. 

Now the downsides of Norway. Firstly the maps, in PBEM2 Pangaea map is selected. Which mean that most battles are happening at land and not on seas. Norway shines when islands map is chosen, all other players would tremble in fear from Norway. But in this map Norway is simply a less good choice. Berserker gets an attacking bonus of 7 strength, but it also gets 7 strength penalty when defending. Berserker is best used as when an surprise attack is launched at light defended cities in backlines but not when fighting a large scale land war. Finally its unique building is underwhelming, just extra faith from woods. 

Conclusion: it is very unlikely that i choose Norway although catching a player with his pants down sounds fun.  

   

Peter of Russia is an interesting character that offers possible ways to win. I played Russia several times and concluded that Russia is a jack of all trades. You can aim for any possible victory with Russia, although Russia isn't among best choices if going for any victory type. I try make here list what Russia can do.

Domination victory with powerful Cossacks which are stronger than cavalry and their ability to move after attacking offers tactical advantage on battlefield. The downside here is that I get Cossacks in Industrial age, by that time would I still be alive?

Science victory: this type victory is less suitable for Russia than other victory types. Only science bonus is when i start a trade routes with more advanced civilizations, this should allow keep me up with others slightly. 

Religious victory: Russia can build Lavra instead Holy Site, it is 50% cheaper and gets double great prophet points. So going for religion is good option for Russia.

Culture victory: aside culture bonus from trade routes similar as science bonus, Lavra not only generate two Great Prophets points, but also one Writer, Artist and Musician point per turn. This way Russia can pile up cultural artists for more tourists.

And lastly Russia gets extra tiles when founding cities and when using Great Persons in cities with Lavra, so i often don't need to purchase tiles. Also i can work at tiles that are two tiles away from beginning.
Also where majority of civilizations rather avoids tundra tiles, Russia can settle around it for more production and faith, but food is a problem there.

Conclusion: Russia looks most solid from three choices, with all victory types possible and useful land grabbing bonus that i can use from start. 


Deadline for civilization choice is set at 22 April, i need to make choice by then.

[Alhambram]

In PBEM 2 Organizing thread a issue came up, it seems that everyone need to submit their choices privately. So that others don't gain advantage and adjust civilization pick when one of us already made his choice and reveal.
I guess that it is fair for everyone to keep each others in dark of their civilization picks.

In my case, India seems be more risky choice the before, because i am now absolutly not sure whether my opponents are choosing civilizations with religious flavors.
So the choice is between interesting/risky India and more safe Russia. Since it is my first PBEM game, I go for more safe bet.


So, for this PBEM 2 game I pick Russia!

[Alhambram]

With my choice made, all that is left for me this evening, is doing some guess game which civilizations others are going pick with a bit introduction of my opponents.

-oledavy: Looking at threads that he started, he has much experience from civilization 4 and 5 multiplayer games. Among players that participate PBEM 2 he is clearly veteran of the pack and i consider him favorite to win PBEM 2. His favorite role is more obvious by his civ pick roll: Greece (Gorgo), Kongo, Rome. Before rolling the civilization pick, i hoped that i would get one of three civilizations that i consider best to get: Rome, Germany or Greece (Gorgo) and oledavy managed to pick two of them. 

Rome: if you wonder why it is a top tier pick, all you need is to read Sulla's PBEM 1 game thread. 

Kongo: worst pick that oledavy can make, i gonna eat my hat if he picks Kongo. Kongo gets some nice bonuses, but overall it is only suited for cultural victory unless oledavy surprise me somewhat. 

Greece (Gorgo): If you want a early great general, don't look for Rome, instead look for Greece or Poland (banned due being paid DLC), since they gets free wildcard policy from start. With barbs on, Gorgo's ability truly shines and for every barb killed, Gorgo gets a bunch culture. I did several test games with Gorgo before i knew from which three civilizations i should pick. In that test games I was able to pile up culture in astonishing speed, even faster than monument buffed Rome. It got me Strategos policy in roughly 15 turns which generates two great general points per turn. Thanks to free wildcard policy slot, Greece can use Strategos from start, unlike Rome which need to unlock governments to able use wildcard policy slots. In Sulla's Rome game, he got his Great General in turn 68 and in my test game with Gorgo i already gotten two of them by that turn.   
Also you shouldn't underestimate Hoplites, yes they gets in trouble against normal warrior already (-10 strength penalty due being anti cavalry units and this is why warriors are able to beat barb spearman). But when two or more Hoplites are standing at adjacent tiles, they gets 10 extra strength. That would allow them to beat warriors barely, but things become interesting when Hoplites can pick up Thrust promotion: 10 extra strength. Suddenly the adjacent standing Hoplite can match up with unpromoted swordsman. Add up the fact that they are bit cheaper and available earlier then swordsman, you might attempt to rush with them around turn 50. (and oh don't attempt to bring early Great General with Hoplites: Hoplites are ancient age units and so they aren't affected by Great General bonuses which only is valid for Classical and Medevial units. I made that mistake while playing test game and was wondering for long time why my Hoplites don't get extra strength and movement points    )

Normally oledavy would pick Rome, but i wouldn't be surprised if he picks Greece (Gorgo). In that case I might need a early archers to keep enemy hoplites at bay.


-Woden: i don't know much about him, only he did play a decent game at Adventure 4. So he is bit sort of a blank page, same as Singaboy.

Arabia: This civilization shines after researching medieval techs from where Arabs are able to generate much Science, after that Arabia is one of best tech civilization. Its late boom is similar with Germany, though in German case it is production boom. So Arabs also faces similar problem with Germany that it suffers from early rush, in PBEM 1 teh who played German civilization got crippled by various rushes before he could maximize his productivity. So any Arab player needs to survive until medieval age. A religion is necessary for Arabia and player playing Arabia in PBEM shouldn't wait until last prophet, because it is unlikely that all other players are aiming for other prophets. Mamluk is a decent unit in medieval age.

China: If i would describe this civilization, then i would call it a wonder-building civilization. China's strongest point is ability to rush ancient and classical wonders with builders (15% of completion per charge) and China already starts with builders who gets four charges and with Pyramids wonder a extra charge. Other players are unlikely to go after wonders, because it is expensive. Which often means that China player basically should get all good ancient and classical wonders as Pyramids, Petra, Colosseum, Colossus and Great Library. Other bonuses are not really impressive.

France: One of worst civs to play multiplayer with, just don't choose this civ for multiplayer.

I suspect that Woden is pending between early starter China or late boomer Arabia, either choice is good. I think China.


-Singaboy: similar with Woden a sort of blank page. His only reported adventure is where he steamrolls AI civs with Kongo of all civilizations.   
He got a interesting pick, two civilizations of three from PBEM 1.

Aztecs: An above average pick, eagle warriors can be used for rush. However in this PBEM they are likely busy with fending off barbs from Aztec cities. In a game without barbs, eagle warriors are force to reckon with until around turn 50 when everyone start getting archers. Eagle warriors can convert defeated units into builders which can be used to rush districts to boost Aztec economy. With extra amenities bonuses, Aztec rarely needs to worry about war weariness and unhappy populations.    

Egypt: I think that it is just average civilization, with some nice all round bonuses, but it don't make me willing to choose it.

Germany: I also refer here to PBEM 1 game, that of teh. At that thread German strengths (Hansas) and weaknesses (early and repeated rushes) are exposed.

I think Singaboy also have a choice between a early civ (Aztecs or Egypt) and late (Germany), i suspect Germany.


-TheArchduke: I have followed PBEM 1 from start and watched how TheArchduke got caught with his pants down by Sulla. But i know that he can do better and he is certainly fired up to prove in this PBEM. I rather not have a fired up player as neighbor, though i appreciate his spirit to attempt PBEM again after what happened in PBEM 1.

Japan: I think that Japan is decent civilization, although bit tricky to play with since you need to plan districts far ahead to maximize adjacent bonuses, also some districts get their build time halved. Good unique unit and situational strength bonuses. Electronics factory is an late game building. 

Greece (Pericles): I already described why Greece is strong with Gorgo. Pericles at other hand however lacks aggressive early culture piling up bonus from combat, instead it is more long term civilization with culture bonuses from every city state that Pericles is the suzerain of. A earlier Great General before Rome is still manageable thanks free wildcard policy. I already said enough about Hoplites and lastly Acropolis is basically upgraded version of theater (beware of fact that Acropolis can only be built on hills unlike normal theaters!).   

Spain: Spain is an religion based civilization, with bonuses against civilizations with other religions. But as i said several times already, it is unlikely that all of other players are going for religion. Conquistador however is a brutal unit in religious wars: it gains 10 strength when own religious units are at same tile and they forcefully converts the population of captured cities into Spain's religion. 

Overall viewed, I think TheArchduke is going pick Greece (Pericles), otherwise Japan. I would be surprised if he picks Spain.

[Alhambram]

I request some help with posting of screenshots here, i did post some at second post. However it somehow didn't felt right, but since i could see it i didn't mind it.
Today when checking my thread, pics won't show up, so i deleted them.

Which program is most useful for posting screenshots here?

[Old Harry]

Photobucket and Imagur seem popular. Dropbox has had a reputation hit recently for the way it's treated old links but I'm still using it. What did you post yours from?

[Alhambram]

Photobucket and Imagur seem popular. Dropbox has had a reputation hit recently for the way it's treated old links but I'm still using it. What did you post yours from?

Thanks for suggestion, I used Windows Live to transfer screenshots, but it didn't work out in end...

Tomorrow I shall try out which of your suggestion suits best for me.

[Alhambram]

Okay, used imgur now for screenshots at my second post, hopefully it don't disappear as it happened yesterday.

It is my first time starting a thread. So you are welcome to make some suggestions or comments. For example if you don't see screenshots or thinks that it is too big, feel free to say me: i still have learn a bit about it.
Also English isn't my native language, so I end up correcting little language mistakes often when I post thing quickly and notices mistakes when I reread my own posts (see amount modified posts by me in this thread). If you don't understand the context what i am saying, feel free to ask for clarification from me.


Thread issues aside, all players made their choices which civilization they are going play with.

Oledavy picked Greece (Gorgo), I already said that i wouldn't be surprised if oledavy picks Greece (Gorgo) instead Rome. By piling up culture in early stages of game, Greece (Gorgo) has a potential to be even more dangerous than Rome with barbs on in this PBEM. I hope that other players don't think: ah oledavy didn't pick Rome, that is reason to worry less.

Other players did exactly pick what I predicted based on strengths of civilizations that they picked. I am bit amused that TheArchduke again gets a opponent in PBEM who picked same civilization as him, although leader and leader's ability are different. Hopefully for TheArchduke, oledavy isn't planning a Peloponnesian War soon to unite two Greek empires similar what Sulla did in PBEM1 by unifying two Rome's.


I took some time to think about victory conditions. Most obvious is domination victory: simple crush all opponents (more specifically capture each capital of your enemy) and it is likely no.1 option that players are trying to achieve. Domination victory can be achieved any time if one of players is powerful enough, likely around medieval/Renaissance age when the dominating player strikes with more modern units similar with Cuirassiers in civilization 4. By the chance that two dominating players are locked in standstill, it might be decided in modern age by domination or other victory conditions.

Science and Culture victory are both late game victories, this type victories is more likely if PBEM ventures in modern age, but my guts says that this PBEM is going be decided before modern age, same as PBEM1 now.

Religious victory is achievable from medieval age when some techs are unlocked that strengthens religious game-play resulting in faster and aggressive spreading of religion. In PBEM1 all players ignored religious victory.

I think that everyone in game is aiming for domination victory, seeing their picks. Although there are some back up victories possible if some players reached an deadlock. Greece and China can aim for alternative cultural victory, Germany can build spaceship faster with superior production and Russia can aim for any victory.
Since I don't assume that someone try get Religious victory, I decided that I aim for religious victory with help of Russian Lavra's with domination victory as back up.

With goal set, it is time to think about strategy and some practice games with random maps playing as Russia.
Maybe this evening or tomorrow I shall post my strategy plans.

[Commodore]

How will you account for missionaries being sitting ducks for anything military at all?

[Alhambram]

How will you account for missionaries being sitting ducks for anything military at all?

I was thinking about that too. In my test games I was able to spread my religion easily with AI not attacking them, however I think that human players are less welcoming towards missionaries. 

That is why I am still thinking and playing more test games to see which approach works the best. After all religious victory is never attempted in PBEM multiplayer game, so I don't know how other players are going to react. I am wandering in an unexplored territory here.    

In beginning stages human players are likely to tolerate one or maybe two missionaries, but a carpet bombing of missionaries is a casus belli for human players to declare war on me. (or if I am unlucky an aggressive human player already declare war on me by merely sight of my missionary). 
An missionary can be chained up with units, so chaining them with scout protects them from barbs and aggressive wandering units of my opponents. When at war, I can rush missionary chained with scout to a tile next city and hopefully scout survive the attack and my missionary can convert more population. 
I rather avoid 4 vs 1 war against here due too aggressive spread and I think that I should approach this carefully. Missionaries have four movement points, so I can rush one of them next a enemy city and spread once.
Then my opponent have choice to declare war to me or not, in beginning stages it is more unlikely to declare on me unless he is planning an rush. If not declaring war at me, I spread further.

Another possibility is sending missionaries to two civilizations when they are warring with each other, hopefully they decide that missionaries aren't worth killing and rather send their troops to deal with enemy.

Also when founding religion I might pick up itinerant preachers, it spreads religion from religious cities to other cities located at maximum 13 tiles instead 10. When all spots are settled, my religious city likely reaches not only adjacent city, but also city behind the adjacent city. This way I need fewer missionaries and I can ignore much desired Holy Order which decrease cost to purchase missionaries. The conversion rate however is slower than with missionaries, the pressure rises when cities got more followers. So it is good idea to max out amount religious population in all of my cities and if possible use up all missionary charges at enemy capital.

It all is still in planning stages and some theory crafting, I have yet to see whether it works in multiplayer.