RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[RefSteel]

I thought you'd gone. I can log out if you want.

No worries. I've got some other posts to make.

[Maniac Marshall]

I'd send at least two of them to cottage at Temminck. I'd probably have the third move to one of the hill tiles the roading of which would shave off a tile of movement between Ornata and the rest of the empire.

Can't argue with the hill idea. Keep in mind we have 3 workers that just finished a FP farm for MGZ that are free as well. I had thought to send two of those to cottage at Temminck.

I think... I shall go to bed. I'll let you into the game and you can do whatever, and I'll log in tomorrow and do anything that's still needing doing.

Guess there is no reason that we cant do both sets of workers cottaging.

BTW: We're excruciatingly close to finishing RP this turn. Like, 50% research would still be 2 turns kind of close. I checked to see that working the gold at Ornata wouldn't be enough, and it isn't. Looks like we'll get buku overflow into Rifles.

[RefSteel]

Okay, so in my comments above, when I say "converted to gold?" ... Apparently, I actually mean "lost with no compensation." I read somewhere here at RB that this was wrong, but just tested it in a sandbox and confirmed what (I forget which poster on Civfanatics) said he found in the code:

T0: Treasury of 292, losing 41gpt, with 23 hammers in an archer. Whip the archer for 1 pop (now 75/25, plus 5hpt from tiles, due to bureau cap with forge). Hit next turn.

T1: Treasury of 251, losing 44gpt, archer complete, with 14 base hammers of overflow (25 X 4/7 for BureauCap with Forge). Start on a Scout, putting 45 hammers into him from overflow and normal production.

T2: Treasury of 207, losing 44gpt, scout complete, with 12 base hammers of overflow. (This is more than 15 x 4/7, but I suspect a game calculation error. I tried again in a non-cap city, generating 70+ hammers of overflow into a scout, and again got just 12 hammers of overflow FROM the scout - the correct number for that city, which had a forge.)

So ... something to be aware of when managing overflow.

More importantly: Fierias plan updated back on page 90. I'll post it below as well. Note that on the turn we build the settler for MGZ, we'll be working the grass farm, not the plains farm. This means we get one hammer less for no apparent gain, but it's intentional; it allows us to get that pair of one-turn workers three and four turns later.

[RefSteel]

I think... I shall go to bed.

Sleep is good. I should do that too. I'll look at the game but probably won't do anything but gather information. I'll post suggestions if I have any. Also, there's something that got lost in the confusion about missing beakers:

We got Sankore!!! Yay!!!!! I know you weren't worried about losing it, but it's still going to be pretty great for our empire. In fact, now that the game has updated things correctly....



We're still second in GNP, but only 7 behind the leader. Who is in a golden age. And presumably making slightly more than our 6 Espionage Points per turn. Oh - and did you know we're still in decentralization? We're not even (quite) in our maximum commerce configuration. RP still shows an ETA of 2 turns, but we're going to have a *lot* of overflow into rifling. We Kittens are pretty okay at teching.

[RefSteel]

Here's the plan for Fierias for the next few turns:



Let me know if anything needs fixing.

I've gotten most of a spreadsheet together for FS too...
...but it's still going to be a while.
(Making the build queue work isn't easy.)

[RefSteel]

Okay, how's this?

T140: PR builds Hindu Temple
T141: PR builds Theater (Temple on hold)
T142: PR builds Theater (Temple on hold)
T143: PR builds Hindu Temple (Theater on hold)
T144: PR completes Temple with significant overflow, builds Theater
T145: PR completes Theater with LOTS of overflow, builds Worker
T146: Worker complete (with a small amount of overflow). No whip required. Soon enough for Byz?

The above costs us 4 hammers and 4 beakers (all from delaying the temple) but better than a whole pop point, I think.

One way to improve on this would be to get a watermill up at PR on the space you marked. (If you're not sure what to do with the workers on MGZ's FP). They can road on their way there and it's not immediately needed - the city shouldn't use it before turn 143 if it follows the plan above - but would provide more hammers for the city. It could work its idle farm this turn and next instead of the village (true, we lose 12 beakers that way, but PR has no multipliers for them, and it grows it a turn sooner) and then work the watermill when it grows. If we do this, Temminck could even borrow PR's FP farm on the turn the worker's being built since the food would otherwise just turn into overflow hammers (and get demultiplied without ever having been multiplied in the first place) anyway.

Other/alternative tasks for those workers: Roading and/or pre-chopping forests for MGZ, particularly the one on the grassland hill in MGZ's first ring. They *can* also cottage the Temminck grassland closest to them, but I'd argue that can wait. The workers near Ornata can get a cottage finished next turn (in time for Temminck to grow onto it) en route to helping out in the east. (There's other useful stuff for them to do on the way, depending on how quickly their help would be wanted.) The remaining Temminck grassland can be cottaged in time for it to grow onto THAT.

Speaking of cottages, by the way: We get our third mature town next turn!

Finally: If it's possible to mine that plains hill just west of Kilrah's roaded forest (the one you're planning to lumbermill first) by Turn 149, that would be terrific. The tile wants a road anyway to help link Kilrah and Smithsonian, but Smith's microplan would be improved slightly if there was a mine there by T149. Not the end of the world if it can't be done, obviously.

Okay, ACTUALLY finally: I was wrong about the Bananas. Didn't notice they were in Palaven's second ring. It'll be a challenge to control them whether or not we take control of the FP and peak. So ... do we want to do any of that? Or just cede all those tiles to them?

[Maniac Marshall]

Okay, how's this?

T140: PR builds Hindu Temple
T141: PR builds Theater (Temple on hold)
T142: PR builds Theater (Temple on hold)
T143: PR builds Hindu Temple (Theater on hold)
T144: PR completes Temple with significant overflow, builds Theater
T145: PR completes Theater with LOTS of overflow, builds Worker
T146: Worker complete (with a small amount of overflow). No whip required. Soon enough for Byz?

Works for me

The above costs us 4 hammers and 4 beakers (all from delaying the temple) but better than a whole pop point, I think.

Agree.

One way to improve on this would be to get a watermill up at PR on the space you marked. (If you're not sure what to do with the workers on MGZ's FP). They can road on their way there and it's not immediately needed - the city shouldn't use it before turn 143 if it follows the plan above - but would provide more hammers for the city. It could work its idle farm this turn and next instead of the village (true, we lose 12 beakers that way, but PR has no multipliers for them, and it grows it a turn sooner) and then work the watermill when it grows. If we do this, Temminck could even borrow PR's FP farm on the turn the worker's being built since the food would otherwise just turn into overflow hammers (and get demultiplied without ever having been multiplied in the first place) anyway.

I'll see what I can do about that.

Other/alternative tasks for those workers: Roading and/or pre-chopping forests for MGZ, particularly the one on the grassland hill in MGZ's first ring. They *can* also cottage the Temminck grassland closest to them, but I'd argue that can wait. The workers near Ornata can get a cottage finished next turn (in time for Temminck to grow onto it) en route to helping out in the east. (There's other useful stuff for them to do on the way, depending on how quickly their help would be wanted.) The remaining Temminck grassland can be cottaged in time for it to grow onto THAT.

Pre-chopping stuff there is something I'd thought about too.

Finally: If it's possible to mine that plains hill just west of Kilrah's roaded forest (the one you're planning to lumbermill first) by Turn 149, that would be terrific. The tile wants a road anyway to help link Kilrah and Smithsonian, but Smith's microplan would be improved slightly if there was a mine there by T149. Not the end of the world if it can't be done, obviously.

I think I can make that happen. I'll look into it. Feel free to add signs in game for these things, as it will help me remember.

Okay, ACTUALLY finally: I was wrong about the Bananas. Didn't notice they were in Palaven's second ring. It'll be a challenge to control them whether or not we take control of the FP and peak. So ... do we want to do any of that? Or just cede all those tiles to them?

There's no way I'd want to go... uh bananas for those bananas. first off, it might not be possible to get them, and second off, that's a virtual declaration of war on our part unfortunately.

The FP and the plains hill I'd like to try to get if it's not a total killer. I might be wrong, but I think MGZ could be a killer production site eventually. It's got freaking hills! Either this city or a city we plant up at violet should be our Hermatige site I think.... Unless we want to try to plant a city in no man's land between us and Mali after Biology + State Property. I think that city would be so busy going all food it wouldn't be that productive though.

We might even plop down a cathedral at MGZ and/or Violet if we need to... Keep in mind he's planning on putting culture in those cities straight away. I'd be surprised if MGZ wasn't involved in building as space ship part or two if we survive to that stage.

[Maniac Marshall]

Still kinda tired from last night, so I'll probably turn in early and work on a state of the empire report tomorrow.

[RefSteel]

I think I can make that happen. I'll look into it. Feel free to add signs in game for these things, as it will help me remember.

Aye-aye, sir! Now logging in to spam signs everywhere.

The FP and the plains hill I'd like to try to get if it's not a total killer.

Not a total killer. Shouldn't really be all that hard, actually. I'll think about how best to do it. A Mandir would be funny, so let's put one it at some point, yeah. I don't think we'll need the Hermitage here unless we DO want the bananas, but we'll see. Depends on how much of a culture fight Byz decides to put up in the end.

I might be wrong, but I think MGZ could be a killer production site eventually.

Could well be. We'll see what we can do with it!

Unless we want to try to plant a city in no man's land between us and Mali after Biology + State Property. I think that city would be so busy going all food it wouldn't be that productive though.

It would be a slow starter. I marked a possible spot on the map while I was sign-spamming.

A few specific worker ideas for turn 141 will follow if I get the chance.

One more Very Important Thought, though: I suggest naming the Worker we give to Byz "Presrop Miner" - after asking if they think it's an appropriate name for him to keep. (Do a Google search for the name, without the quotes, and check out Google's blurb for the first result, bearing in mind that Byz is playing a Mass Effect theme.)

[Maniac Marshall]

I named the knight for Mali "Gift Horse" and reminded them not to look him in the mouth. The gift dropped us to 11th in power... only Azted, Inca, and Portugal are lower.

Rifles and Cavs are about 10 turns away yet. Cannons are probably similar. We'll have about 8-10 turns of military production before we get the "good" units. What do you suggest we make among Catapults, Curries, Pikes, Muskets, Cats, and Longbows over that period? I'm slightly tempted to make a few cheap longbows and some cats, and maybe a pike or 2.