RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[RefSteel]

Maniac: It is not your fault by any means, nor in any instance, that I have spent time I didn't have on this game: Just my horrible time management skills.

The reasons I wrote that diatribe were 1) to explain why and that I'll be reducing the amount of time I spend on the game, 2) to accurately characterize my thoughts and motivations on the situation, and 3) self-expression, basically.

[RefSteel]

Anyway. My main frustration is with is the Pitboss format, and with myself for wasting time I should not have. I certainly do NOT blame you for posting exciting (even when frustrating) new developments in our thread. If I respond by wasting my time, MY response is not YOUR fault! I don't blame you for asking for a reload; as I mentioned, I didn't mind either way. I don't blame you for making honest mistakes (e.g. with the sugar) - I've made gazillions of those, as has everyone else in the game and in life. (For instance: I notice that Byz has Buddhism in their culture-battle city. This means we probably need to pop third ring culture within ELEVEN turns of settling AB. This can be done responsibly however, so no worries.)

The ten-turn giant worker plan I developed wasn't a response to the sugar trade. It's just that I had devised most of a ten-turn giant worker plan (because I have horrible time management skills) and I figured it would have a smaller impact to make that plan work with hooking up the sugar than to revise the plan you were using. [EDIT]For that matter, I should make sure of something: The current version of the worker plan I mentioned assumes we basically want to clear-cut the Savannah and AB areas to speed up their development, while delaying forges until we have enough culture in each city to ensure it will keep its BFC. If this isn't what we want to do, let me know.[/EDIT]

I *have* enjoyed this game, for all the reasons I mentioned. It's been great working with you (and, when they've been around, the other Friendly Kittens). It's been great interacting with the other players and lurkers. The problem is spending way, way too much time on the stuff that's really not much fun - and there's an easy solution to that - which I am (hopefully) going to execute.

I think I'll have more to post later this evening. Don't strain anything over the relaxed-pace game, okay? It's STILL relaxed pace!

[Maniac Marshall]

Hmm, I was going to build walls in Ornata this turn, since they retain their bonus vs non-gunpowder units... but what exactly does non-gunpowder units mean?

My assumption was that meant anything the game did not classify as a "gunpowder" unit. For example, cavs and tanks are not classified by the game as gunpowder units, so my assumption is that it should work vs them...

I asked Krill if he knew, but he wasn't sure so...

I set up a WB test. Gave myself a Tank, a Cav, and a Rifle vs a rifle behind walls... and... I don't see the defensive bonus . hmm. I give myself a crossbow and... bingo, the defensive bonus IS there, so basically, at this point in the game, walls ARE useless or about to become so. They'd still affect cuiries, but not muskets, and not the soon to be on the scene Cavs and Rifles.

Consideing I was planning on building 4 walls in the next 5 turns, 100 hammers saved (only 100 because we have stone.)

I've swapped Ornata to a Hindu Temple.

In trivial other news, Kyan has gifted us an Axeman that he'd been using as a scout. Still, at this point, a unit is a unit.

[Maniac Marshall]

Anyway. My main frustration is with is the Pitboss format, and with myself for wasting time I should not have. I certainly do NOT blame you for posting exciting (even when frustrating) new developments in our thread. If I respond by wasting my time, MY response is not YOUR fault! I don't blame you for asking for a reload; as I mentioned, I didn't mind either way. I don't blame you for making honest mistakes (e.g. with the sugar) - I've made gazillions of those, as has everyone else in the game and in life. (For instance: I notice that Byz has Buddhism in their culture-battle city. This means we probably need to pop third ring culture within ELEVEN turns of settling AB. This can be done responsibly however, so no worries.)

The ten-turn giant worker plan I developed wasn't a response to the sugar trade. It's just that I had devised most of a ten-turn giant worker plan (because I have horrible time management skills) and I figured it would have a smaller impact to make that plan work with hooking up the sugar than to revise the plan you were using.

I *have* enjoyed this game, for all the reasons I mentioned. It's been great working with you (and, when they've been around, the other Friendly Kittens). It's been great interacting with the other players and lurkers. The problem is spending way, way too much time on the stuff that's really not much fun - and there's an easy solution to that - which I am (hopefully) going to execute.

I think I'll have more to post later this evening. Don't strain anything over the relaxed-pace game, okay? It's STILL relaxed pace!

Yay. Nothing more, just yay. I have to leave shortly to go to the rehearsal dinner. Have I mentioned that GenCon is going on without me right now .

BTW, if you haven't seen, PAT is threatening to mess up all our plans. They're now suggesting we should use the merchant for a GA (since he's only 1100g with a trade mission). I'm somewhat resistant to the idea for a few reasons. It'll mess up our plans, and it'll use up a GA we could use to boost production of spaceship parts later being top of the list. However, if things DO heat up, we might need it to help us get enough units up to survive...

[RefSteel]

Yay. Nothing more, just yay. I have to leave shortly to go to the rehearsal dinner. Have I mentioned that GenCon is going on without me right now .

BTW, if you haven't seen, PAT is threatening to mess up all our plans. They're now suggesting we should use the merchant for a GA (since he's only 1100g with a trade mission). I'm somewhat resistant to the idea for a few reasons. It'll mess up our plans, and it'll use up a GA we could use to boost production of spaceship parts later being top of the list. However, if things DO heat up, we might need it to help us get enough units up to survive...

The Merchant can be saved at least until PAT risks running out of gold. I wouldn't trigger a Golden Age barring an actual emergency - until we'll be ready, by GA's end, to revolt into civics we'll be using for a long time.

Also, I added this to the post above, where it will probably be lost: [EDIT]For that matter, I should make sure of something: The current version of the worker plan I mentioned assumes we basically want to clear-cut the Savannah and AB areas to speed up their development, while delaying forges until we have enough culture in each city to ensure it will keep its BFC. If this isn't what we want to do, let me know.[/EDIT]

[RefSteel]

Actually, another question with a small but surprisingly non-zero impact in the nearish term: Do we want to maintain the best possible chance of getting a scientist or engineer at Smithsonian Park (there will always be a small chance of an Artist anyway) or speed up our GPs there by eventually mixing up the pool?

[RefSteel]

Full (for now) Worker Plan posted here.
(Yes, that's post 8, back on the first page.)

Also, let's make these visible again (and up-to-date).

Individual city microplans:




[EDIT: Corrected as of T152.]

[Maniac Marshall]

Actually, another question with a small but surprisingly non-zero impact in the nearish term: Do we want to maintain the best possible chance of getting a scientist or engineer at Smithsonian Park (there will always be a small chance of an Artist anyway) or speed up our GPs there by eventually mixing up the pool?

[RefSteel]

Planned builds [at Fierias] with completion dates here: Hindu Missionary (143), Aqueduct (144), Settler (145), Worker (148), Worker (149), Hindu Missionary (154), Grocer (155), Settler (156)

All of these are off by one turn - displaying the last turn on which the build will occur instead of the first turn the object will be completed and available. Hindu Missionary shows up next turn (and will cool its heels for a bit near the AB site anyway) followed on T145 by an Aqueduct, followed on T146 by a Settler (which will found AB on T147). The two workers appear on T149 and T150. The next Missionary, Grocer, and Settler will likewise come into being on turn 155, 156, and 157, respectively.

Planned builds [at PR] with completion dates: Hindu Temple (144), Theater (145), Worker (146), Catapult (148).

This, on the other hand, is accurate as far as I know. (So too for Temminck.)

Would be nice if we could get the production up with a couple of mills. I still think that, long term, the cows should become propery of Adventure Beach.

The mills will definitely go up (my microplan puts a token worker turn into one on Turn 145) - we just need our newest cities to get up and running first.

Planned builds [at Temminck] with completion - Theater (144), Grocer (148).

We're going to need that theater for happy, and the sugar and silks in short order too.

Temminck's happiness problems are illusory, though this is in part because we DO have sugar again, and CAN get the silks hooked up in time (our own second sugar should be hooked up by the time our current deal can be canceled.) The need for health is NOT illusory, but I don't think we'll need to whip the Grocer on turn 147, nor do I think we should whip this city unless and until it IS needed.

Planned Builds here [at Feng Shui] are - Worker (143), Worker (147), Worker (148), and, honestly, I think we might need at least a theater, if not a BC here before the University.

The second and third workers should turn up on T146 and T147 actually, if I understand the plan correctly. (Overflowing into a University this turn = T143, building a Worker T144, double-whipping it T145, and overflowing into a one-turn Worker T146.) It should have time to complete its university (perhaps via the whip) before a Ball-of-String Court is needed.

Bad News - The waring parties have all made peace. This frees up the Ottos to come bust our heads... this worries me. Hopefully they'll be busy defending JANK instead, as Mali will be declaring war on them this turn.

At all events, given its location, Mali's stack and sentries should be able to warn us of anything approaching through JANK territory. It would be nice to have our own sentries to cover any possible approaches Mali might not see (from outside JANK territory of course, since we lack OB). Might take some coordinating with Mali.

This city [Kilrah] needs to spam mounted units for, like, the foreseeable future really.

Planned Builds here are - Cuirasser (144), More Mlitary (Not soon enough), More Military (Not soon enough, More Military (etc...)

[...]

We REALLY need units, even to the determent of growth for the next 10 turns or so I'm afraid. You'll note, we're trying to get our 2nd great person out of here... risky business as were losing some food for the hammers, but... the reward outweighs the risk hopefully.

This sounds fine to me.

Planned builds here are - Catapult (148], Library (149), Stable (150), Rifle (151), Cavalry (152), and soon thereafter Globe. Yep, we're whipping this puppy to death.

As with Fierias, those aren't quite right, mostly due to mistaking final build turns for completion dates. Now that I write this, I realize I did the same thing for the Globe somewhere up-thread (in discussing National Wonders.) Actual competion times are: Catapult (149) - Stable (152) - Rifle (153) - Cavalry (154) - Catapult (157) - The Globe Theater (158). I'd like to fit a University in here at some point, since it WILL have some cottages and things, but (as you can tell from the next few builds) it's going to be concentrating mostly on military.

Is [Ornata] a production city with those desert hills, or is it a halfass commerce city? What do you think?

It was planted mainly a territory city as far as I could tell (which explains why we don't know what it'll be doing). After the temple ... I dunno. It has that gold, and I'm worried about our borders in the south, so maybe a library. (This has the advantage of eventually allowing a University. We ought to get eight as soon as it's practical:

1) Fierias (complete)
2) Temminck (complete)
3) Feng Shui ("in production"-ish)
4) Hukawng Valley?
5) Red Dwarf?
6) Smithsonian Park?
7) Ornata?
8) Adventure Beach? (Heh-heh - if only for the culture!)

I neglected to comment on this one's name above, by the way, but one of the colloquial names of Felis Silvestris Ornata is "Indian Desert Cat," which is of course what makes this city's name so appropriate.

OK, one more. Here's a pure commerce city that's being farmed up to use the whip, in the short run, although, we might want to reconsider a bit. Might be better workshopping all the non river tiles instead? The river tiles need to be cottaged.

I'm seriously concerned about our long-term commerce potential. We may be second in the world at the moment (severely trailing someone in a GA - though that might be an artifact of Organized courthouses, depending on who we're trailing) but how many of the eight cities we've planted (or soon will plant) since Feng Shui have been commerce cities? There's this one, and ... uh ... will Savannah qualify? Ornata, with its gold? If the answers are no, and this one gets half its non-farm tiles workshopped....

I have no build queue here beyond the forge/theater whip combo like we did at Ornata.

Hindu Temple, then (probably) library. In fact, we should build temples BEFORE forges in most future cities unless/until Mass Media starts looming. (2 hammers + 2 beakers + 1 culture is nothing to sneeze at, the forge's +25% usually only contributes ~14 hammers to the temple, and the temple is 40 hammers cheaper.)

In trivial other news, Kyan has gifted us an Axeman that he'd been using as a scout. Still, at this point, a unit is a unit.

That's hilarious!

I have to leave shortly to go to the rehearsal dinner. Have I mentioned that GenCon is going on without me right now :cry:.

Sorry to hear you're missing it. I hope the wedding is great though! Close friends?

On Smith's GP pool: Sounds good; we can start running merchants around T158-160.

On civic swaps: I agree that a switch to SP would be nice, assuming we're not pursuing Mining Inc - and that should probably be possible if we wait for the GP we get from Kilrah. Of course, there's that whole "barring emergency" thing.

[RefSteel]

I believe that's it for the data dump. I made a tiny correction to Smith's spreadsheet above, to reflect the worker plan. A larger correction will be made if we get the needed tech for observatories.

Oh - you asked about missionaries. I don't especially care either way, but the Taoist one should probably go /somewhere/ - I guess either Fierias ... or save him for SteelClaws for a Sure Spread™ or something, I guess.

I had a chance to log into the game, and did so just to make sure all was well (which of course it was). I changed nothing at all.

Have a great weekend! I'll try to check in on Saturday night to at least see if I'm needed to play the turn. I hope I won't need to do so, as I'm not sure whether I can log in or not at that time....

Have a great weekend - even if you're NOT at Gen Con!