[Spoilers] Pericles of the Graeco-Mayans

[Sylon]

I woke up today, started up the turn, played it, came to the forums and thought 'Huh, everyone's posting today. I wonder what got into them?'. Then I read Jowy's post, re-loaded the save, and checked the event log.

Well, that explains a lot.

Today, you get... More diplomacy! Apparently this is more interesting than Always War.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Dear Kodii,

Thessaloniki is at the western periphery of Wonderland- that is to say, the western edge of Wonderland. It is not in the centre. More precisely, it is to the left of Vandal, with no overlap in BFC's.

Considering Vandal, I feel that is fair enough. Still, I believe there is a richer spot to the North of First, grabbing gold, gems, three food sources and floodplains, and sheltered by an un-passable series of mountains- surely this would have been higher on the agenda?

On a separate note, it would appear that my suspicions on the city of Boundary were correct! Though with a name like that it doesn't come as much of a surprise.

Sincerely,
Sylon[/COLOR]

[COLOR="LemonChiffon"]Hello Sylon,

Great to hear back from you so quickly. I am very happy with our consistent communication.

To be completely honest with you, I have not explored much of the "Wonderland", which is why I have opted for Vandal as my top priority at the moment. Apart from that, I have little interest in the rest of Wonderland as it is so removed from my current capital. This decision may be premature due to my lack of exploration, but I am more interested in developing my core and expanding into the southern islands.

Also, on a bit of a fun note, my fourth city "Boundary" was actually next in line for city names and was not named so because of its location. Very appropriate though!

- Kodii[/COLOR]

First First, now Boundary... It might just be a coincidence, but I fear his opponents would interpret it- or have interpreted it- as a provocation.

---Some time later---

[COLOR="Cyan"]Dear Kodii,

Congratulations on capturing Vandal! It would appear my chariot did not make it on time. Now that the Vandal question is resolved, you don't mind if I send the now (more or less) useless chariot through your lands to explore it a bit more, do you?

Speaking of exploration, I've just stumbled upon Pegasus' borders with my workboat. I suppose it's time to return the question you asked me before, albeit in a slightly different manner- I intend to sign an NAP and Open Border agreement with Pegasus, do you have any stance on this? It certainly seems that relations between you and Pegasus could become strained. It is, however, worth noting that as Pegasus is blocked off from Wonderland by a series of peaks and lakes, I will not be able to do anything in the event of war between Pegasus and yourself.

Please let me know your thoughts on this matter.

Sincerely,
Sylon[/COLOR]

Translation: Got caught trying to snatch Vandal under his nose with my chariot. Failed by a single turn. The rest of this message is trying to downplay my diplomatic blunder. In order to smooth our relations, I offered to seek his opinion on diplomacy with Pegasus. By distracting him with the Pegasus issue, I hoped to divert his attention away from my chariot.

[COLOR="Wheat"]Hello Sylon,

It is news to me that I have captured Vandal! Hopefully that doesn't mean that someone else has managed to capture it over the last turn... which would upset me because I already killed two of the warriors for them. Feel free to send your chariot through my lands. It would be unfair for me to deny you, as I am wandering through yours at this very moment!

How are discussions going with your agreement with Pegasus? Ideally, I would like to see what happens between Pegasus and myself over the next two turns (ie, whether or not he declares war), but in either case, it isn't my decision to stop you from signing a NAP or Open Borders with Pegasus. If you decide to go ahead with it, it will not damage our relations.

On the other hand, if Pegasus does declare war on me, and you do not sign a deal with him (especially since a NAP would only benefit HIM, since he will be tied down with me), then I see that as a huge boost in our relations, even if you aren't able to contribute much, if anything. +1 for "battling" along side each other so to say. But again, it's up to your strategic choice.

Let me know what your final decision is!

- Kodii[/COLOR]

Diplomatic crisis averted. Thank goodness.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Dear Kodii,

No one has captured Vandal yet, but judging by the looks of it, you will this turn, so the congratulatory message was one in advance.

I have yet to establish diplomatic relations with Pegasus (At this hour, he should be asleep anyway), choosing instead to consult with you before doing so. I'll refrain from discussing the NAP until the following two turns are up; I'll see how he reacts to your settling of Boundary before signing one.

Also, will you tell Mackoti that his City of Second shows up as City of City of Second on the trade screen, or shall I?

Sincerely,
Sylon[/COLOR]

Banter. I'm not terribly concerned with letting Kodii dictate my foreign policy on this end of the map- the chances of Pegasus and I successfully working together is low due to the Boundary crisis drawing Mackoti and Pegasus together anyway. Still, I would prefer to be able to establish diplomatic relations with him, if anything to keep my options open.

[COLOR="Wheat"]Sylon,

Ah, I see. Sorry for my lack of understanding. Thank you for refraining from continuing your talks with Pegasus for the time being. I value your commitment to our relationship!

I have not spoken to mackoti in a while. If you are in continued communication with mackoti like you are with me, feel free to bring up his city naming the next time you send a message to him. Funnily enough, my city naming was again misinterpreted with mackoti under the impression that "First" was named because I was the first person to settle near the centre. I am highly amused that he named his similarly placed city "Second"

- Kodii[/COLOR]

That's a useful bit of info. Combined with Mackoti's comment on not opening borders with Kodii, this helps to illustrate the shape this game is going to take.

---Some time later---

[COLOR="Cyan"]Dear Kodii,

It seems war has broken out after all. I suppose there's no need to contact Pegasus anymore- though if you would like me to play the role of a peacebroker, I will oblige.

As Pegasus and myself do not have Open Borders, there is no conflict of honor in telling you what I saw with my workboat. Pegasus just hooked his copper up. I'm not sure if that was his first source of copper- for all I know, it might have been a spare- but nevertheless I hope this information aids you.

On a separate note, I feel it would be better if we kept our relationship secret for now. Considering Mackoti's antagonism (?) towards you, the revelation of the depth of our cooperation would cause him to feel isolated and besieged, driving him into a close alliance with Pegasus. That would be detrimental to the both of us.

Wishing you the best of luck in the war, since goodness knows that blasted RNG has a fondness of letting people down.

Sincerely,
Sylon[/COLOR]

So, why am I so keen on aligning myself with Kodii? The answer is simple: the map is made that way. Our lands are on opposite sides of the map, yet the map is shaped in a way that we can still benefit from an alliance. Aggression against each other is largely futile, since that would lead to a vastly overstretched empire and massive maintenance costs. It is in both our interests to work together, and neither of our interests to go against each other. Thus, he makes a natural ally.

------

Turn 75 is coming up- if there is anything you would like me to get a screenshot of, or any part of the game you would like a summary about, please ask.

[Sylon]

3,000 years have come and gone, and the once feeble city state of Athenai has spawned many colonies, which have themselves grown and prospered. The Koinon Hellenon (Hellenic League) stands tall and proud amongst the great civilisations of the world. Ships from the furthest coasts dock at the ports of Athenai and Rhodos, while in the east Greek chariots jealously guard the borders of the colony of Thessaloniki.

With the opening of borders to trade comes stories from afar. Tales of the great stone monument built by the Indians to honour their god Buddha. Whispers of the cult of Vishnu that has sprung up amongst the brotherhood of Incans. Lucid fantasies of a great tower rising above the sea, shining with a magnificent light that guides the path of Malian sailors. And in the far east, admiration and horror alike at the martial prowess of the mysterious Turks.

The world is changing. Ideas flow freely through the seas of the earth, and with it, comes the potential for greatness. Will the path of the Greek people be guided by the quill and the scroll, or will their destiny be forged by the spear and the sword?

[Sylon]

The burgeoning island city of Rhodos. I've got a workboat from Sparte en rout to the fish, and it will whip the workboat once it grows to size four.

In the long run, I see this as a whip/draft camp. Depending on how things go, it may become my Globe City. Of course, it has the drawback of being an island, making shipping troops back and forth quite troublesome.



The city of Argos. Right now it's working the furs in order to get Mathematics up for the founding of Thermon. Once Athenai grows to size four, it'll work the furs and Argos will swap back to the mine. I've got the garrison from Rhodos arriving next turn to alleviate the unhappiness penalty. I plan to build the Maoi here, since it will eventually be working a lot of coastal tiles once the sheep goes back to Athenai.



The glorious city of Athenai. I've gone back on my earlier plan of using this as a specialist city- Losing the whip is far too painful. Also, Bureaucracy is better than Vassalage.

I've delayed building an Academy here so far, in a move that wastes my Philosophical trait, but frankly, I don't see the need to multiply my measly 6.50 beakers. I'll get a Library up once the archer is done- Sparte and Argos should be able to pick up the pace of founding new cities from here on.



The martial city of Sparte. Unit pump, occasionally worker or settler pump. Might even slip a wonder in between if I can afford it. It'll be trailing behind in size until I reach Civil Service and get those farms up and running.



And finally, Thessaloniki. It just got linked to my capital this turn- it would appear that the lake connects to a river which connects to a road in Mackoti's lands which connects to the City of City of Second which connects to the coast which connects to Athenai. Speaking of which, notice how all my mainland cities have pre-emptively embraced Mercantilism by trading through Rhodos.

It's a fairly rich city, but will never be able to work that glorious floodplains wheat since Mackoti will be settling next to it this turn. Still, it makes quite a powerful commerce city- I would put my academy here if not for the fact that it's on the frontlines.



The Greek Peninsula, also known as the Head of the Dragon with a Very Long and Misshapen Body. The people here are prone to aspirations of greatness.



The Greek mainland. It's got quite a bit of space. As Mackoti has said, there's still space for 5 or 6 cities here... And two more on the peninsula. I plan to cede everything south of Production site to Ruff.



The Roughlands (Rufflands) of India. Here you can see that the Southern portion of the jungle is vastly richer and is actually grassland as opposed to crappy plains jungle like in the north. He's still got space for several more cities on the mainland and many more on the islands. The Southern port location I've got marked out is an attempt to make up for not getting Vandal. It also gives me more of a role in the archipelago.



Wonderland. Mackoti will found a city on the hill this turn. It's quite cramped, but there's still space for one more killer of a city to the east, with two corns, cows, gems, and gold. Better for it to go to Philosophical Mackoti than to Financial GLH Kodii.



The archipelago and Centralia Minor. I hope I haven't overplayed its size, but it's definitely as rich as I described it.



Graphs. Or, more specifically, one graph. At this stage of the game, food is hammers, food is commerce, food is power. Nothing matters except food, and perhaps culture to check who landed the religions (Ruff and Mackoti). I'm neck-to-neck with Mackoti, and ahead of him by one city.



And finally, demographics. Mackoti has bumped ahead of me in food again, and I'm doing poorly in all the other categories. I wonder who's working all those mines, though? It doesn't seem economical unless they don't have granaries up and running yet. Speaking of granaries, the figure might be inflated thanks to Expansive hammers.

------

That just about wrap things up. Thermon will be founded in three turns, Math in 6 or so turns, and after that I plan to grab the Hanging Gardens. Maybe I can negotiate a deal with Mackoti to let me build the Pyramids uncontested in exchange for letting him build the Great Library and Mausoleum uncontested. I doubt he'll fall for that, though.

[Sylon]

Thermon will be founded in one turn. I'll get the sheep hooked up quickly with my workers, while whipping the workboat at Argos and overflowing into a settler. Sparte will finish its worker, then work on a chariot. Or perhaps an archer.

Notes elsewhere: Mackoti founded his next city as intended. It's not producing any culture yet, so I'll try to keep up the cultural pressure as much as possible in the hopes of controlling that wheat tile. The next build seems to be a library, then. If Mackoti is planning war on me, shame on me then.



Actually, that power graph is a bit worrying... But I'm more worried for Kodii. It seems the war might escalate after all.

[Sylon]

Just a short update on this turn.



Kodii founded Judaism in his city of Hastings. He also has Marble, which makes that Ruff, Kodii and Mackoti who have access to Marble. I'm not sure about Pegasus.

Pegasus' core does in fact connect to the islands, and the route is not blocked off by anyone else's cultural borders. If he expands north, he'll find himself bordering Kodii on two fronts.

Mackoti just carried out a giant whip last turn, enough to register as a large blip on the graphs. Without a doubt, he whipped a settler in one of his developed cities. Now the question is where this settler goes.

Edit: Wait, is that a coastal forest I see just south of Hastings?

[Whosit]

Yeah, that looks like a coastal forest. Wonder what that's doing there. An easter egg?

[Sylon]

Not an easter egg. I'll refrain from beating the dead horse, but needless to say it goes into the same category as the jungle plains, jungle mountains and jungle desert. Of course, in this case this has greater repercussions, since it blocks off the only direct route to Hastings, making it impervious to direct amphibious assault thanks to the +50% defense bonus.

Anyway, moving on, Mathematics comes in next turn. I'll get a Settler out in 6-7 turns, which will go on to found Thebai. I want to get that stone up and running- let's see if we can snag the Hanging Gardens. In Thessaloniki, if possible.

Speaking of the Wonderland front, Mackoti already has a Terrace in his new hill city. I guess I won't be in control of that wheat tile for much longer.

[Sylon]

Judging by the posts in the other thread, you already know this, but the Oracle and the Pyramids both fell last turn. The Oracle is one thing, with Pegasus crippling his growth to build it, but Mackoti built the Pyramids while keeping in pace with my growth. Ack.



I'll guess that Pegasus grabbed Metal Casting with the Oracle. This should help balance things a little- better Pegasus than Ruff. Even if he is playing as Pacal II.

The Granary in Thermon has finished- I'll be skipping the lighthouse (It's only 1 extra food at this stage) and chopping a library to work some much needed scientists there. Athenai also whipped its library this turn, which pushes it up against the happy cap. I'm torn between stalling growth to work on a worker, or building a workboat for what is to be Thebai while growing past the happy cap before two-pop whipping a worker. Actually, the second one sounds great.

With two scientists and Philosophical, I should get an academy in 6 turns.

[Sylon]

I woke up and found, after two weeks without diplomacy, an odd little email in my inbox.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Perhaps as you seen i entered like a second in your theread(ye i sent a email about that) I have the bad custom the take threads one after another to see whats new and accidentaly i clicked yours(that was all what hapened ), when i realised i get out very quicly i didn't see nothing( you can belive you may not).Sorry again abot the practly missclick.
On the diplomacy front I hope you will not setle the island above me(the one with sugar and fish near me),because i will see that like act of war( you already have Rhodos wich is like a ''thorne in my side"', hope is the right expresion), again a very nice move of yours this one and the central city.Today i was looking at the save carefull and i didn't like what i seen,practicaly when the era of galeons will came that city will put in danger all my cities on that coast, from there you could move and atack my capitol very easy.I hope that will not happen for that i propose a NAP until turn 150( of course you dont setle the island with fish and sugar).
I will frank with you i think you have best option for development(you can get to 13-14 cities peaceful wich is not an option for me), and i ofer you a good deal now you dont disturb me in my plan and i will not disturb you.From what i see now me, pegasus and kodii get the same amout the land like you an ruff hi .Yes here in the midle the land is beter but very costly, and you allready got your share.
I think will very hard to convice you to go at war along my side(because you have all that land to develop).
Write me back some lines about your thinking in regards with the things i wrote to you.

Mackoti[/COLOR]

So the islands to the north have fish and sugar. Gotcha.

Well, apart from the fact that it's far from my capital and can be cut off at will by Mackoti, it would give me a northern naval border with Ruff. So, settling there is off the table.

On another note, huzzah! Free NAP! I was wondering if I was going to have to persuade him to re-sign it, and here it comes free!

Also, he seems intent on blowing up my expansion potential in order to secure more concessions. This is starting to grate on my nerves.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Dear Mackoti,

It was an accident, so don't worry about it. You didn't see any spoilers, and you had no malicious intent on your part, so I have no reason to blame you. It's not something big enough to bring up in the email thread, either.

I have no intention of settling the island to the North, if we are talking about the same one. Or rather, I have no intention of settling north at all- it would be a logistical nightmare with little long term gain. Rest assured that I will not settle there. Mind you, I would like to remind you that the world is toroidal, so you might want to settle there before someone else does (Everyone else has access to the islands).

Also, as I have mentioned before, there is a second site with gold and gems and lots of food to the east of Wonderland- you should settle there. I figure it's best not to wait too long, lest Kodii settles it. I shudder to think what he could achieve with such a site.

A quick check reveals that I do not, in fact, have space for 13 or 14 cities, even when counting filler cities. The unsettled space between Thessaloniki and my core has enough space for 3 good cities and two filler cities. The availability of the rest of the land ultimately depends on how Ruff plays from now on- most likely, he would claim most of the jungle, and with good reason, too.

I am willing to sign an NAP; however, it is often said (by those more experienced than I am) that binding one's hands for too long is not a good move. I propose an NAP until turn 125. From there, we can work something else out.

One more thing. I would ask that you do not settle past the mountain range to the West of the former city of Second and your new hill city. Apart from the fact that the only tile you can pick up there is a plains deer tile, it would severely strain our relations. As you have the lion's share of Wonderland, and as the lay of the map favours your central position by making expansion northward into the islands easy (The islands are clustered around the middle of the map, and do not extend to the edges of it), I feel this is not an unreasonable request.

I sincerely hope we can continue working together. Perhaps, should you ever have a spare happiness source, you could trade it for one of my spices. Later in the game, of course. Unless you already have spices? I can't quite seem to recall.

Sincerely,
Sylon[/COLOR]

Well. Technically, I'm not exaggerating his expansion potential, I'm merely emphasizing it. Also, and alas, it happens to be the truth. His central position has been nothing but good luck for him so far. I'm only grateful it was him, and not Ruff, who got that position.

The shortened NAP is merely to keep my options flexible. I don't think he fell for the 'more experienced players' bit, but never mind. Interestingly enough, an NAP until Turn 125 is just enough time to research Currency, Code of Laws and Construction! This is an amazing coincidence.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Sounds ok for and i wil not setle here altough is very close to my core, i think is more to mine than yours, but you look like a nice guy and i agree on that on. Nap until turn 125 is ok if you think so. I have a setler going in that direction , i will setle on those sheep because i need to have some kind of defence( like crosing river for the oponents) and to be easier to reinforce. There will be a real cultural batle( i love you inca).

In the mater of islands will be very hard for me to get there before kodii or pegasus,I think all i will get is maximum 2 island cities.But if anyone setle that island north of me will be war, i dont care who will setle there.
Nice talking with you,
Macedon[/COLOR]

At this time, I had resigned myself to letting Mackoti have even more good land. However, when I opened up the save today, I saw this:



Hoorah! Thank you, Pegasus! This balances things out for everyone. Except Ruff.

Speaking of Ruff, I had a chat with him after I sent the save. We had a long and interesting discussion, which will be summarised as follows:

• Ruff agrees to my settling of the Production site north of the Jungle.
  
  
• Ruff will be settling in the southern, richer portion of the jungle.
  
  
• Ruff agrees to allow me to settle a port city, so long as I move it 1NW of its original position.
  
  
• Ruff has a city on what he calls 'Banana island'.
  
  
• There may be two banana islands, not one. This seems extremely likely, as Centralia Minor is quite a distance from his lands. About as far as Thessaloniki is from mine.
  
  
• Mackoti sent Ruff a message which he summed up as 'Settle the fish/sugar island and I will hate you'.
  
  
• Ruff is swapping between Iron Working, Monarchy and COL. It appears he can't make up his mind. That said, he'll probably go for Iron Working first, considering his latest city.
  
  
• Ruff raised the question of whether I would agree to swapping gold or gems for the rest of the game in exchange for two missionaries. Probably not. I could always get them from Mackoti or Kodii.
  
  
• Ruff offered to swap work boats; his current exploring work boat on my southern coast will be given to me in exchange for my work boat currently back around the coast of Centralia Minor. Plan was eventually shelved until we confirm whether there is one or two banana islands.
  

[Sylon]

Heads up- Mackoti has calendar.



He also has Marble.



And a Great Engineer.

And the Pyramids.

And he's Philosophical.

Bloody hell. That's the very strategy I had hoped for in the opening stages of the game. Why couldn't I have gotten his start?

Calm down, calm down. This can be turned to my advantage. Diplomacy with Pegasus will be coming once I figure out an excuse to open communications. Mackoti may be lucky, but he lacks in skill and diplomatic finesse. I can turn this to my advantage.

(Also, I suspect he's building the Hanging Gardens already, judging by production- 40 hammers as opposed to the average of 32)