Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore
Create an account  
Realms Beyond Forum     Gaming     Civ Game Reporting     Completed Games     Completed Civ 4 Pitboss     Pitboss 11     [no players] Warsighs of the Newb: An Experiment in Lurking.

 
[no players] Warsighs of the Newb: An Experiment in Lurking.

#111
May 24th, 2013, 19:59
Lewwyn Offline
Weeb Fox
Posts: 12,343
Threads: 46
Joined: Jan 2011
Seems like he's a got a warrior to defog it before the settler is built. A bigger mistake would be to not reevaluate his dotmap after defogging. In any case, I would definitely dotmapped differently based on what I see so far.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
Find
Reply

#112
May 24th, 2013, 20:02
teleh Offline
Regular User
Posts: 311
Threads: 6
Joined: Mar 2013
(May 24th, 2013, 08:36)Commodore Wrote: So, theories about the map layout? You have the UU-counter triangle, the restricted pair, and "Ouch to Russia in the Ren era"...what else?

Not there yet, although a CommoChallenge is always fun. If only everyone was posting nice satellite views like Sut & Oxy!

Oxy's to Suttree's NW-ish, you can just see the wine overlap from Sisu's most recent western screenie.

I wish Molach would explore ESE, can't tell if those fellas are isolated down that way but it looks like Wet at least has some land to the NE. Jungley at that, although whether it peters out or connects with peter retep or Xemu, again is a mystery. I see gems in both the latest shots, but that's not helping much. Hopefully Azza will explore his NW to reveal whether that area connects to something - probably methinks.

Kuro better grab that land south and tech up to optics; he might have a land bridge back to something through his tundra but if not he should be thinking about other expansion options.

Couple of crazy theories - generous inland sea with one or more bridges, and, large map however with the wrap being N/S rather than the usual. Doubtful! But next turn's scouting hopefully puts things into perspective...
Find
Reply

#113
May 25th, 2013, 04:32
fluffyflyingpig Offline
Member
Posts: 887
Threads: 4
Joined: Feb 2006
Pitboss 11: Adventures in bad dotmapping
Find
Reply

#114
May 25th, 2013, 09:51 (This post was last modified: May 25th, 2013, 10:03 by pindicator.)
pindicator Offline
Clerics are the worst
Posts: 17,737
Threads: 82
Joined: Nov 2005
Hey, it takes time to get out of that SP mindset.

Another great example is the gold/wheat plant that Arabia has in mind. Yeah, it's a great site - but at 6 tiles away you've got a ton of travel time, and then you need a border pop to get the thing online. I'd consider that as a third city, but way too far for a second, especially with a capital full of food to share.

Edit: 3E1N looks like it's still coast for Suttree. But yeah, he needs to unfog first
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
Find
Reply

#115
May 25th, 2013, 11:31
novice Offline
Fighter
Posts: 13,563
Threads: 49
Joined: Oct 2009
(May 25th, 2013, 09:51)pindicator Wrote: Hey, it takes time to get out of that SP mindset.

People keep saying this. Is it just a euphemism for "weedy mindset"? I would think those sparse dotmaps suck in SP too, if you're playing for the fastest win. I don't have a lot of SP experience though.
I have to run.
Find
Reply

#116
May 25th, 2013, 11:58
teleh Offline
Regular User
Posts: 311
Threads: 6
Joined: Mar 2013
SP-mindset (imo) comes from the AI's 'Every city's a pink dot to grab as many resources as possible in the BFC' playstyle, you can see a bit of that here.

Can just see the teensiest overlap with a river/forest/hill which puts AzzaWetMolach to the west of Oxy (well it was going to be the case with Molach's tundra but whether on the same chunk'o'turf or not). So scratch the crazy wrap theory.

There'll be a south-eastern corner chop-race to the mids too. And no stone yet, and no marble if I remember correctly.
Find
Reply

#117
May 25th, 2013, 14:48 (This post was last modified: May 25th, 2013, 14:50 by NobleHelium.)
NobleHelium Offline
Terse Lurker. Competence First.
Posts: 13,237
Threads: 25
Joined: Oct 2010
(May 25th, 2013, 11:31)novice Wrote:
(May 25th, 2013, 09:51)pindicator Wrote: Hey, it takes time to get out of that SP mindset.

People keep saying this. Is it just a euphemism for "weedy mindset"? I would think those sparse dotmaps suck in SP too, if you're playing for the fastest win. I don't have a lot of SP experience though.

Well, recent adventures have shown that the general optimal strategy in SP is to plant some pink dots and then back fill later, because AI bonuses mean they'll outsettle you otherwise. You would generally not do that in MP. That's not directly related to city density of course, but since you're planting the outer cities first it often leads to less dense cities in the middle.

But yes, SP mindset is often just a euphemism for being bad.
Civilization IV: 21 (Bismarck of Mali), 29 (Mao Zedong of Babylon), 38 (Isabella of China), 45 (Victoria of Sumeria), PB12 (Darius of Sumeria), 56 (Hammurabi of Sumeria), PB16 (Bismarck of Mali), 78 (Augustus of Byzantium), PB56 (Willem of China)
Hearthstone: ArenaDrafts Profile No longer playing Hearthstone. wink
Find
Reply

#118
May 25th, 2013, 14:57
fluffyflyingpig Offline
Member
Posts: 887
Threads: 4
Joined: Feb 2006
(May 25th, 2013, 11:31)novice Wrote:
(May 25th, 2013, 09:51)pindicator Wrote: Hey, it takes time to get out of that SP mindset.

People keep saying this. Is it just a euphemism for "weedy mindset"? I would think those sparse dotmaps suck in SP too, if you're playing for the fastest win. I don't have a lot of SP experience though.

Even in single player, it's best in general to share a resource or two with your second city to get it off the ground faster. After that you're pink dotting to claim land on high levels and backfilling later.
Find
Reply

#119
May 25th, 2013, 18:44 (This post was last modified: May 25th, 2013, 18:45 by Merovech.)
Merovech Offline
Spearless
Posts: 3,588
Threads: 13
Joined: Jun 2012
Seriously? I've been previously thinking that you guys are too harsh on Kuro, but seriously? Getting a 5/1/0 tile at your capital (and discounting AH) is a "waste" of six turns of research? That just shows a severe lack of understanding of the game, not just some weird misevaluations or city placements, which are at least pseudo-common.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Find
Reply

#120
May 25th, 2013, 19:57
Cornflakes Offline
They're magically Delicious!
Posts: 6,138
Threads: 55
Joined: Apr 2012
Here's an idea ... since Kuro has a dream start and appears to be misusing it, we can have a little mini-game competition here in the lurker thread. Someone can create a save of the starting position and upload it here. Then all interested parties can play through and submit their best opening, say through T40? (or T50?) Closing date can be end of the corresponding turn in the actual game, and whoever submits the best opening by then wins smile

A 10-tile radius from the capital should be sufficient for planning city plants within the first 40-50 turns, but we may have to wait for a couple more turns of Kuro's scouting (unless Commodore has the map and could start us a SP game with his start).
Find
Reply



Forum Jump: