RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[Maniac Marshall]

When we eventually do revolt, what are we looking at regarding end stage civics? I think slavery and SP are practically given. But what about the others? HR or Rep? Bureaucracy or Nationhood? OR or FR?

Rep offers better long term research, but HR allows for more drafting. Same choices with Bureaucracy and Nationhood, and Nationhood would allow a free rifle every turn from HV.

I'm starting to think that anything but Nationhood is not safe in the long run, but I could be convinced...

I also sent reminders to India, Azteca, Byzantium, Portugal, and Inca about our naps and the terms and conditions thereof

[Maniac Marshall]

Just a quick note. I had 8 minutes before work to log in and pass Rifling around. After that, I took the time to finish the mine/chops at SP and...

Working the tiles we're supposed to this turn... Heroic Epic 250/250. We're completing it to the exact hammer. So we lost 5 hammers (to my mistake?), and we had exactly 5 to spare. Talk about cutting it close...

More after work and/or tomorrow.

No, I haven't forgotten about that other project. With the time going back to 24hrs, the "extra time" has dried up a bit unfortunately.

[Maniac Marshall]

Heads up: HRE/Ottos may be switching sides. If that happens, world war is likely imminent. We'll need to think about drafting rifles asap.

Oh 27/72 culture at AB. 53/46 at Savannah. According to Mali, Ruby Tuesday will get a religion in 2-3 turns, and a theater in about 8-10 turns.

I was unsure what to build at PR. I was tempted to build a BC, which the city will need if we're going to draft it heavily, but settled on a Cavalry till we know more about the Otto/HRE defection, which it is speculated, will also being Byz over. At which point, we may have to go to war with someone... Ruff?

[Maniac Marshall]

T150 Culture battles.

Savannah Wheat - 54/45 us
Ornata tiles - 60/39 us
Adventure Beach - 31/68 not us
Thundara... don't ask.

Question: biology is due in 10ish turns. Do we want to build one monastery of each of the 3 religions we have besides Hindu? If so, time is running out. We'd need to build a Jewish one at PR, a Taoist one at Temminck, and a Buddhist one at FS.

[RefSteel]

Actually, on further review of the code, I don't think that can happen. The processing sequence for each city goes growth - culture - plot culture - production, called from CvCity::doTurn. But tile ownership is not checked during that plot culture step. [...] So Pitboss is not as idiotic as you think.

I'm glad to hear that - and thanks for examining the code and discovering this!

Not sure where this happened, and it does not appear to be a breaking of anything issue, but Smiths Park has 3 less hammers than your spreadsheet thinks it should. As the rollover hammers from NE are 5, we should still be able to complete NE on schedule.

The food is spot on still. Not sure where the 3 hammers would have gone.

Luckily, that's one of the places where margin for error was built into the plan. "3 hammers" actually meant 2 base hammers, which is why it came out perfectly anyway. There may have been a calculation mistake in my spreadsheet; I'll look into it when I have time (i.e. maybe this year.) Shouldn't have an impact on anything on the posted spreadsheet except that we'll continue to be "3 hammers" short for a bit.

When we eventually do revolt, what are we looking at regarding end stage civics? I think slavery and SP are practically given. But what about the others? HR or Rep? Bureaucracy or Nationhood? OR or FR?

Rep offers better long term research, but HR allows for more drafting. Same choices with Bureaucracy and Nationhood, and Nationhood would allow a free rifle every turn from HV.

I'm starting to think that anything but Nationhood is not safe in the long run, but I could be convinced...

I'd favor Rep over HR. Both provide happy, but HR is self-defeating to an extent: To deal with unhappy from whipping/drafting units in a city, you have to leave the units in that city! (The anger wears off, but not until the unit is obsolete.) If we were already burning cash on a huge number of outdated units, we could use those for MP while sending new units to the front, but....

Is it worth considering US, by the way? We won't have an enormous number of towns, but we'll have some.... (And cash rushing can help in an emergency.) Rep is probably better though in the short and mid-term.

As for the other choices ... Bureaucracy + OR is much, much better for developing the empire (buildings at newer cities, plus workers, settlers, missionaries, etc. from the capital). Nationhood + Fundamentalism is much, much better for acquiring military in a hurry. Thanks in part to Sankore, I think Free Religion will have negative or no value for us until we have a much greater number (and maturity) of cottages and/or multiple religions spread everywhere and lots of draft+whip anger. I prefer developing the empire, but that's a preference, not necessarily the best strategy.

Working the tiles we're supposed to this turn... Heroic Epic 250/250. We're completing it to the exact hammer.

This is a result of mining that river plains hill near Kilrah, by the way. I'm happy about that.

Heads up: HRE/Ottos may be switching sides. If that happens, world war is likely imminent. We'll need to think about drafting rifles asap.

We're kinda thinking about that anyway, right?

According to Mali, Ruby Tuesday will get a religion in 2-3 turns, and a theater in about 8-10 turns.

The reason they're making 6cpt now, by the way, is that they have a thousand-year-old library and are (I assume) running a scientist in Rep/Merc with the Sistine chapel. Anyway, I'll have to run the numbers, but we probably do have to keep building culture at Savannah for a few turns more.

At which point, we may have to go to war with someone... Ruff?

...(sighhhhhhhhh)...

T150 Culture battles.

Savannah Wheat - 54/45 us
Ornata tiles - 60/39 us
Adventure Beach - 31/68 not us

Thanks! Reporting these numbers just this way for each of the next few turns would be terrific!

Thundara... don't ask.

Thundara shares two important second-ring tiles with Ruby Tuesday's 2nd ring. These will never be ours. It shares an important first-ring tile with RT's 3rd ring. This will never be theirs. It also shares an eventually-important 2nd-ring tile with RT's 3rd ring. This will be theirs for a while, but will become ours by the time we need it - permanently, or at least as long as they neither actively try to swamp us nor go for a cultural victory. But there's probably no need to report the cultural numbers there. What's Thundara doing right now though? Has it whipped its granary?

Question: biology is due in 10ish turns. Do we want to build one monastery of each of the 3 religions we have besides Hindu? If so, time is running out. We'd need to build a Jewish one at PR, a Taoist one at Temminck, and a Buddhist one at FS.

It depends. If we'll soon stop being in OR, then we do want some monasteries, but preferably not at those locations: We want them, if possible, in places where we'll want culture long-term. For instance: Temminck can build a Taoist missionary or two when it's done with its grocer, and send (at least) the first to Ornata, which I think will be ready to build a monastery (if desired) by then.

If we're going to be in OR after the golden age is over, there's no reason to build monasteries, as those cities (and then those to which the religions spread) can just build missionaries when they aren't building more important things.

[Maniac Marshall]

Thundara just this turn whipped it's garinery after growing to 4 pop. It can whip a theater or a temple (you tell me) in a couple turns. I'll log out. I was taking pictures for the T150 report.

As to if we'll soon stop being in OR... I dono. I really don't. HRE and Ottos end staged to Nat. Ottos end staged to Nat + Theo! (so it's obvious what their plan is)

I've determined that we CAN draft 40 rifles or dern near that in 8 turns if we build Ball Courts starting Nowish, but... thats 4-5 pop off places like Fierias. I hate the thought of that, but I hate the thought of being runover by opposing military even more. I'm really afraid we either have to draft like wildmen in an 8t GA starting the turn we get globe, or, we're going to have to end out the GA in Nationalism, or risk having to revolt the first turn of a war.

I'm really not looking forward to war at this stage either, but if HRE/Otto/Byz all flip to PAT, then I dono if we can remain on the sidelines very long. We're certinally being pushed hard by Krill to trigger NAP cooldowns, but I refuse to do so until we can defend ourselves, and until we know that world war is inevitable.

We still have several cities we can settle peacefully afterall.

[Maniac Marshall]

Immage dump for T150 demographics and other similar stuff:

[RefSteel]

Thundara just this turn whipped it's garinery after growing to 4 pop. It can whip a theater or a temple (you tell me) in a couple turns.

Temple - see my comments on this city above. Now that Globe has been enabled, I'm reluctant to build theaters at places that aren't desperate for culture or happy. I forget what type of city Thundara plans to be though. If it wants to do enough commerce to build a library and university, I doubt it'll need a theater (except maybe if we draft it like madmen). That said, I'm not sure I'd whip it at all until it's about to pass its health cap, unless there's an immediate need.

I'll log out. I was taking pictures for the T150 report.

Please don't feel obligated to do so - I can't log in right now anyway (nor very often altogether).

I'm really not looking forward to war at this stage either, but if HRE/Otto/Byz all flip to PAT, then I dono if we can remain on the sidelines very long.

I think it would be fun to try, but as I won't be much involved, I'm not going to try to push it.

We're certinally being pushed hard by Krill to trigger NAP cooldowns, but I refuse to do so until we can defend ourselves, and until we know that world war is inevitable.

Mali isn't playing the role, so I wouldn't mind being Swiss. As long as neither side is gassing people or anything.

[Maniac Marshall]

Since I last posted (I took a nap) it appears from a gchat I got that Krill has declared war on Portugal and razed or taken a city...

I, like you, was hoping to just be Switzerland. We started in the hidden valley. We had more space than anyone until Krill waxed France and Korea. We could get 3 more halfway decent cities yet, plus a couple of filler ones to bring our total to 17, all peacefully. (That "war" with India doesn't count as it really didn't buy us territory.

It might be possible to sit out this phase of the wars... MIGHT. But if HRE/Ottos/Byz flip... Rome and Protugal are weaker than us, and can't survive long. Aztecs are the weakest nation on Earth, but do have signifigant whipping bonuses. Still, they couldn't hold out too long. Inca, having been gifted like 20 mounted units possibly COULD hold out for a while. This leaves only India, which, under Krill's plan would be attacked on at least 3 different frontds (one being ours). Nine vs Five with 3 of their 5 being in the bottom 5 in power would not = success.

Now, here's the real problem. After those wars are over, and they WOULD end in a PAT victory almost assuredly, we get to the "whats next" stage.

At that stage of the game, PAT's going to have to split again, and we're NOT going to be able to count on NAPs to save us anymore, thus the problem.

I dont like it any more than you really, but, if this flip happens, and I really hope it does NOT at this point, then I think we're unfortunately going to have to start building troops.

[Maniac Marshall]

Cities: Sorry, I just don't have time to type up whats going on with them right now.