The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[pindicator]

We're talking past one another. Collateral won't give us great odds (and we'd need a lot of collateral anyways to max it on every unit). The 'cats are enough' crowd is saying collater plus the damage from the cat attack will be enough.

[pindicator]

9.7 is the highest a rifle seems to have when you go 20 cats vs 20 rifles, but there are a number of them that have that amount. Enough that 20 maces isn't enough to clean up. But I think we'll have more than 20 maces, we will have muskets that will have been drafted, and they should do better. I also think we'll have more than 20 units near the Apolyton border.

[Ubercannon]

9.7 is the highest a rifle seems to have when you go 20 cats vs 20 rifles, but there are a number of them that have that amount. Enough that 20 maces isn't enough to clean up. But I think we'll have more than 20 maces, we will have muskets that will have been drafted, and they should do better. I also think we'll have more than 20 units near the Apolyton border.

Well, no offense, but that seems like more than just a semantic difference. Earlier you were saying that catapults could redline rifles do that 1 musket/mace could finish them easily. But actually, even after max catapult damage, we still need 2 muskets/maces to kill one rifle. I know that it's possible to defend like that, I'm just saying that it's going to be expensive.

[pindicator]

9.7 is the highest a rifle seems to have when you go 20 cats vs 20 rifles, but there are a number of them that have that amount. Enough that 20 maces isn't enough to clean up. But I think we'll have more than 20 maces, we will have muskets that will have been drafted, and they should do better. I also think we'll have more than 20 units near the Apolyton border.

Well, no offense, but that seems like more than just a semantic difference. Earlier you were saying that catapults could redline rifles do that 1 musket/mace could finish them easily. But actually, even after max catapult damage, we still need 2 muskets/maces to kill one rifle. I know that it's possible to defend like that, I'm just saying that it's going to be expensive.

I didn't mean to imply 1 mace to 1 rifle would finish the job. I've never gotten that result in the simming I've done. But 2-1 is more than what I've needed; 1.5 would have been more than enough in what I've tested.

Eh, it's all academic really. We'll see what they come with when and if they come. But we definitely have more maces than we know what to do with, so I think a lot of catapults would be a fine thing to emphasize.

[SevenSpirits]

Mommy, this guy called Ubercannon is telling me that my catapults aren't good enough and I should upgrade to something better. Do you think he has any ulterior motives?

[NobleHelium]

We should probably check how many maces we have right now first.

[novice]

The 4x research estimate for Apolyton isn't sustainable since they were getting funded by CivPlayers. Presumably the funding will stop after Rifling, and CivPlayers get paid back in Rifles or gold.

[kjn]

What Novice said. It was also with Apolyton in a golden age, us with the nadir of our research capacity (big army in the field, lots of unproductive cities, hardly any courthouses), and no Printing Press for us yet.

My guess is that PP and the end of the Golden Age would cut Apolyton's tech rate advantage in half. Then it's a long slow catch up for us, as we add markets, courthouses, and get the prior German cities productive.

Now, lets bring this thread back to things like quantifying what the other teams have accomplished and the tools they have available. Discussing catapults versus rifles can go somewhere else.

[Ubercannon]

Hey I just like cannons ok?
Anyway I don't have much else to say. Guess well just wait and see.

[kjn]

Anyway, Apolyton drafted a third city this turn in Port Boreas. So 3 janissaries for them total. They are also confirmed as the rival worst in power at 276k, since that rose with 9k with this. This is also a thing that explains their high tech rate, they have a very small army. On the plus side, it means they will have a very modern army soon. But this also means that their comparative costs will go up rapidly if they decide to quickly generate a large one.

CFC performed 2 2-pop whips, one of them in KwaDukuza (for 75H, to 87), and the other in an unknown city.

Another thing of interest is that the approval rate has shrunken with this, both rival best (thus probably Apolyton or CFC), the rival average, and the rival worst. In fact, the rival worst in approval rate is now at 49, ie one of our rivals probably has unhappy civizens somewhere.