Interesting chat. There was one really interesting piece of information that slipped out:
Plako Chat Wrote:1:50 PM plako: Possible yes - It seems we got on the toughest spot in this map both you and TEAM have apparently a bit weaker neighbor on your other side
Well then. I'm pretty sure Plako just confirmed for us that TEAM is next to Trolls. So Harry's map guess here:
Old Harry Wrote:____Pirates_____
_M3______TEAM_
_Gillette__Trolls__
Seems quite likely to be accurate. The natural question is how did they determine that information? We met TEAM first, and they only met them through the murderous warrior. Also, Plako seems (?) to be unaware of the gold on the other side:
Plako Chat Wrote:me: well like free info
you have
1:51 PM plako: ?
me: gold
in the other side
plako: ok. thx
It's not airtight, but it suggests to me he suspected but hadn't confirmed (read: had not explored that way enough to find it) that they have a similar gold on the other side. If they know TEAM's location, they either scouted that way or TEAM told them. The above suggests TEAM may have told them. However, Plako also said this:
Plako Chat Wrote:plako: Still need some practice in anger management - It seems tehy're not very active in diplo. btw. I Forget to allocate our EPs and I think reallocating them on replayed turn is not kosher so you'll get another patch of them
We also just got a message from Menagerie that said similar things about TEAM:
Menagerie Wrote:Gillette,
In fact, we do not have any contact with Team. Neither they didn't write any information to us or we to them. As for being unpleasant, they did not have the opportunity to be such. It's hard to attack with a scout
By the way, maybe It could be wise to agree on some kind of border between us, so that both of our teams can feel a little more confident. We would not want to lead to a situation that any of our teams would feel pink doted and forced into an early war.
Taking into account, that we planted our capital two tile north from the expected by map makers start, it should be enough land between us to allow us to coexist peacefully.
Managerie Trois
So... I'm not sure what to make of all this. Part of me wanted to think Plako was being slightly deceitful about "they don't seem very active" and think he got his info from TEAM, but the above message from Menagerie matches up with what Plako said. Stuff to keep in mind. It just seems unlikely that Trolls have significantly scouted towards TEAM. They sent their scout at us and they went with a worker-worker opening, so it seems quite likely they didn't scout towards TEAM, and therefore got their map info from TEAM. Hard to say though. Anyways, moving on:
Old Harry Wrote:So should we tell Trolls we think the map is mirrored so there should be gold between them and TEAM.
And TEAM thought we were their neighbours and tried to buy some time to settle the gold by killing our scout...
So TEAM are coming to get them
?
I like this. Might be able to slip it in on a future email.
To answer Mackoti's question, well I really don't like this:
Plako Chat Wrote:plako: It might be on your benefit to send a screensjhot of the area there. Maybe that could convince us to change our plans
What? This is similar to the things that confuse me about Darrell. They keep implying they have a spot picked out and then acting like they're deliberating about it. Plako claims there is indecision about the location, and then he says we might be able to change their mind..? Sounds like their mind is made up already, and they're just not telling us. I also find it extremely hard to believe that a novice + Plako team would be indecisive about planting a city.
Anyways, I don't want to send a screenshot, because it would show that all we see is crappy land and fog east of the gold. If they DO have food east of the gold, I don't want them using our ignorance as leverage to get a better deal ("see! the land east of the gold sucks, we need north" etc). Well, I'm not opposed to a screenshot swap of the area in question, but I don't see a need to just send them a screenshot with no questions asked.
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Yes, screenshots are allowed at any time. Ok, we have one wrinkle. I misread Mackoti's chat, but Mackoti just notified me on chat. Basically the issue is the screenshot Plako is asking for is of their other gold and not the land between us. The problem is, we haven't actually seen the gold. We just know it has to be there because we know of the gold on our other side. So they may wait on a screenshot that we can't deliver. We should probably take care of this.
I'm going to draft up a message and we can discuss. I kind of want to wait a bit and see if they just respond to our original message because this may end up being nothing (I seriously doubt they will change their minds on where to settle even if we could provide a screenshot), but we should at least be prepared to handle it. I'll draft a message up now, I've got an idea for what to say.
We wanted to clear up some possible confusion we may have introduced. Mackoti showed us a brief chat he had with Plako. In that chat, Mackoti said we may be able to send a screenshot of the gold you have on your other side. We would like to apologize because we cannot produce that screenshot - we have not actually seen the gold. However, we are operating under the assumption it has to be there. There is a similar gold between us and Menagerie that is nearly an identical distance. We believe we are arranged in roughly a circle with a gold between each team.
Anyways, as we said, we are content to let you take the gold between us in the interest of friendship, and we can go get our own on our other side. However, we would like to suggest that if you can uncover your other gold quickly, you could potentially get 2 golds if you race for that one first. You have our word we would not contest the gold between us. We'd bet there's a good chance that TEAM will also be in a rush to get the gold next to you, and may play nice until they get it. Our current theory is actually that TEAM saw our scout and thought we were neighbors with them, and therefore they killed the scout so that their "neighbor" would not see the gold. This would ensure they would beat "us" to the spot. This makes a lot of sense for why they would flippantly kill the scout, because at that point they hadn't actually seen your borders. They were probably disappointed to find out you were the neighbor instead. The short of it is - very good chance you don't get that gold if you don't get it with your first city, whereas you get the gold near us regardless of how much you delay it. Depends on how much you value having 2 golds, but we hope that info is valuable to you regardless.
We of course have no problem with you settling the gold near us first, but we thought you should be aware of your other option, and we do regret that we could not send a screenshot. Our only real request for the gold near us is that you settle on your side of the gold, so as to not take other resources that are on our side like the deer.
Thanks,
Gillette
Ok, that's a lot to digest, so read through it and give input. Even if we do send this (we don't have to), I'd prefer to wait it out a bit longer and see if they respond - at least through the end of the day.
I would be a lot more forceful about where we want then to settle. I'm also not sure I like the idea of them getting 2 gold and then being able to out rex us, but ias long as we get a good split of everything else, I'm fine with it.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Scooter, I think that message is brilliant, and goes a long way towards securing them as an ally while making sure they understand what is unacceptable to us concerning the gold city placement. I say send it without delay.
I think it's hilarious that they prohibited darrell from chatting with us, only to have mackoti find plako on chat and get even more info out of them.
So TEAM are coming to get them 
