September 18th, 2014, 18:54
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Whew, getting tense being stuck between two powerful civs.
Turn 134
In world news:
GermanJoey lost another city, and Confucianism spread to Essen (one of mackoti’s cities).
Mackoti still has a major stack in the city closest to us. He could probably still hurt us if he moved right now, but I think we’ve got enough to hold for a bit.
In domestic news:
We produced a welly, a cat, and a settler. The settler is on its way to found our final non-captured city (next turn). I saved the missionary that was to be used for Quail for this one so it’ll have religion right away. Also produced a couple of buildings and started new builds. 
The welly was produced in Duiker, which now started on a Market (to take advantage of the Kong Miao…now producing 34gpt).
We’ll have Feudalism in 2 turns, and haram has a pair of Keshik’s wandering through our territory together. Also, check out the power graph – we’re movin’ on up!
September 18th, 2014, 23:35
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Turn 135
Surprisingly, there is nothing on the event log that showed up since last turn. Guess it’s been uneventful out there!
In domestic news, we trained two new Impis. I know they're semi-obsolete, but I'm just using them to put a unit in a couple of cities that have no defender at all.
We also founded our last non-capture city, Rhinoceros, and spread Confucianism there immediately with our missionary.
Statue of Zeus will finish next turn.  I whipped it with 3 hammers left so it’d overflow into a maceman.
We’re also producing 1 turn catapults in our Heroic Epic city. It’s pretty nice!
September 19th, 2014, 03:00
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Things are sounding good!
In future you might want to avoid whipping wonders for overflow - they only get 2/3 as many hammers..
Completed: RB Demogame - Gillette, PBEM46, Pitboss 13, Pitboss 18, Pitboss 30, Pitboss 31, Pitboss 38, Pitboss 42, Pitboss 46, Pitboss 52 (Pindicator's game), Pitboss 57
In progress: Rimworld
September 19th, 2014, 10:39
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Well, that's useful information to have. I probably would have waited to whip the maceman, then, but it's done now. Luckily it won't take too long (8 turns) for Antelope to grow back the pop point we whipped.
September 21st, 2014, 21:30
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Turn 136
In world news, haram generated a great general, but no cities captured, so maybe fending off GJ’s counter-attacks.
In domestic news, we finished Feudalism and now started on Guilds. Our Peace Treaty with Seven expired, but since we don’t have common borders I’m not too worried about it. We also completed the Statue of Zeus (and there was much rejoicing…yay…) in Antelope and started on a Maceman.
We’ve got quite a few units in production, as you can see from the domestic advisor. I’m also trying to get our economy moving a bit more because we’re still hurting a bit.
Although that shows Chimpanzee producing a Trireme, it's actually building a Maceman. I was going to build 2 Triremes, but built one and changed my mind.
Also included a shot of the military advisor so you can see what we have right now.
September 22nd, 2014, 22:29
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Turn 137
Not a whole lot happened this turn. A Great Merchant was born, but I’m not sure who got him. Haram did a civics switch to OR, Bureaucracy and HR. If I had a force ready, now would be the perfect time to invade since he won’t be able to build units for a few turns.
Speaking of forces, we’ve continued building up. I have what I believe is a sufficient force to block the chokepoint leading from mackoti to us for the time being (6 cats, 5 wellies, 2 axes, 2 impis). I’m going to throw two more macemen to that area, then start building up some forces on the border with haram.
As I’m finished building wellies for the moment, I offered GJ my Ivory for 1gpt. That should give him an opportunity to build some himself and hopefully help him against haram (and his damn Keshiks). I think it'll do him more good right now than it does me, and the more damage he can do to haram, the better off I am.
Also readjusted some of the espionage points to make sure I keep visibility on everyone’s demographics.
September 23rd, 2014, 10:25
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That sounds like a decent force for the Mack border. Have you shown him that you have it? With a choke point like that I'd guess that Astronomy is the next time you'll need to worry about him. Any idea how far from that he is?
What does your border with Haram look like now? Is he just attacking GJ with Keshiks or has he got cats/maces/knights/wellys? Is there no chance of you sniping a city or two from GJ? Also, how light is Haram leaving his defences while adventuring in GJland - if you built a few Horse Archers do you think you could raze a city or two? Not that that's necessarily a good idea, but I like idly plotting my neighbour's downfall  .
By everyone do you mean people who are miles away from you too? I'd concentrate on the neighbours in the hope of getting research or even city visibility...
Completed: RB Demogame - Gillette, PBEM46, Pitboss 13, Pitboss 18, Pitboss 30, Pitboss 31, Pitboss 38, Pitboss 42, Pitboss 46, Pitboss 52 (Pindicator's game), Pitboss 57
In progress: Rimworld
September 23rd, 2014, 18:52
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Turn 138
Taoism has been founded in a distant land, which means someone detoured to Divine Right. Seven’s golden age ended, and he did a civics swap to Vassalage right beforehand, so I suspect he may be gearing up for war. He shares borders with GJ and haram, so he might be planning to jump on the GJ dogpile.
Nothing major happening in our borders. Two more buildings constructed, two new units built. I finished the stable in Fox, our Heroic Epic city, so when we get Guilds in 3 turns we can start spamming Knights.
The power graph is showing our power is almost even with mackoti and haram now.
So, strategy questions, because warring against humans in Civ is something I have no experience with. We have four options:
1) Go after mackoti. Tech-wise we have parity with him right now. We both have wellies, cats, horsies, plus the usual melee units. We have one point of contact with him at a choke point, but just on the other side of that are Gavagai’s old cities, so they all have low defense. That makes our mackoti border easier to defend.
2) Go after haram. Haram does not have Ivory, but he has all of the other resources. I have not seen any cats in his territory, but he definitely has a bunch of Keshiks. Luckily, with both Impis and Wellies, I don’t fear them too much. Bad thing is that we have two borders (north and south) with haram, and our northern border is weak because it’s separated from the rest of our territory by a body of water. Our southern border is much stronger and easier to reinforce. I can also see a few of his cities and they have minimal units in them (1 or 2, axes and spears).
3) Go after GJ. He’s busy fighting (and losing) against haram, but it goes against my grain to help bully someone weaker.  Plus I just gave him Ivory…can you cancel a deal within 10 turns if you go to war? In any case, this would be a much easier battle and wouldn’t require a great deal of military strength to make progress.
4) Sit tight and just continue to build. This doesn’t seem like the best idea right now otherwise mackoti especially will start to ramp up quickly and start to dominate the game.
I’m inclined to go with option 2, but I’d like to hear any lurkers thoughts on the matter. I could go with option 1 quickly (I have a large force already on that border). Option 2 or 3 would take several turns of moving units…I could probably be ready to invade haram in 3-4 turns. Just have to be careful not to draw down the border with mackoti too much and give him that opening.
And to answer your question, Old Harry, I have my espionage focused on mackoti and haram...I should have haram's research in 3-4 turns, and mackoti's in 5-6 (I'm not sure exactly what causes the cost in EPs for those to change, so I'm estimating).
September 24th, 2014, 04:59
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Isn't Taoism attached to Philosophy, or did that change in this mod?
We tried option 1 in PB13 and it really didn't work out - the only sensible time to attack Mackoti is when you're miles ahead in tech and he's being dogpiled by at least four other civs  . More seriously, the point you make about low defences would apply to you after you took any of those cities - is it a risk worth taking?
Option 2 sounds good, but you need 2 movers to make it work - a picture of the border area would help identify the weak points, but essentially if you can cut into his land and isolate a city or two then your powerful 1-movers can move in to reinforce the front while you pick off the isolated cities at your leisure. His 2-movers are going to be able to get back from fighting GJ quick if needs be, so you want to strike fast. Those knights you've got coming up soon will be excellent for that  . Presumably he's playing after GJ? Is he in Slavery?
3 - depends on how that leaves your border with Haram afterwards. Your resource trade doesn't affect whether you can go to war.
4 - this is the temptation that a lot of people would have. Its the safe option, but no-one wins a FFA by using the safe option nowadays... (LURKER DEMANDS BLOOD SHOCK!  )
If Mack's power hasn't continued to rise you've probably got a 20 turn window while he consolidates the land he just got where you don't need to worry too much about him. Attacking Haram could tempt him, but if you keep a welly or two visible on that border you *should* be okay. The profitability of a Haram attack depends on your geography and tech - if he's still on Keshiks while you have Knights then that's a great opening. Do you have an idea of his tech level? Is he in Bureau or Vassalage?
Completed: RB Demogame - Gillette, PBEM46, Pitboss 13, Pitboss 18, Pitboss 30, Pitboss 31, Pitboss 38, Pitboss 42, Pitboss 46, Pitboss 52 (Pindicator's game), Pitboss 57
In progress: Rimworld
September 24th, 2014, 18:38
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Joined: Aug 2014
(September 24th, 2014, 04:59)Old Harry Wrote: Isn't Taoism attached to Philosophy, or did that change in this mod?
You're right. I'm so accustomed to playing with "Choose religions" turned on that I don't read into when a religion is founded. Islam still has not been founded, so someone hit Philosophy.
(September 24th, 2014, 04:59)Old Harry Wrote: We tried option 1 in PB13 and it really didn't work out - the only sensible time to attack Mackoti is when you're miles ahead in tech and he's being dogpiled by at least four other civs . More seriously, the point you make about low defences would apply to you after you took any of those cities - is it a risk worth taking?
Yeah, that's why I think my best bet is to just hold that border for now and hope for an opportunity to strike while he's at war with someone else.
(September 24th, 2014, 04:59)Old Harry Wrote: Option 2 sounds good, but you need 2 movers to make it work - a picture of the border area would help identify the weak points, but essentially if you can cut into his land and isolate a city or two then your powerful 1-movers can move in to reinforce the front while you pick off the isolated cities at your leisure. His 2-movers are going to be able to get back from fighting GJ quick if needs be, so you want to strike fast. Those knights you've got coming up soon will be excellent for that . Presumably he's playing after GJ? Is he in Slavery?
Well, I'll have Guilds in 2 turns, and I can start pumping out knights. See my next post for maps. It does seem like he has the second half of the turn and GJ has the first, and he is in HR/Bur/Sla/Dec/OR.
(September 24th, 2014, 04:59)Old Harry Wrote: 3 - depends on how that leaves your border with Haram afterwards. Your resource trade doesn't affect whether you can go to war.
4 - this is the temptation that a lot of people would have. Its the safe option, but no-one wins a FFA by using the safe option nowadays... (LURKER DEMANDS BLOOD SHOCK! )
Yeah, if you're not willing to take risks you usually don't win, so I'm willing to do so, just have to figure out the best option. I'm really leaning towards 2 right now.
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