Got a request to exchange maps with wetbandit. I sat and thought about this one for a few minutes, but eventually decided to agree. We're not close to eachother, so he's not an immediate threat to me, and I know nothing about the area of the map he's in. We had explored about 30% of the map, and this trade easily increased that to 70% now. I have to say, I'm pretty impressed with this map -- it seems perfect for multiplayer.
I was going to take some screenshots of the known world, but I guess you can't zoom out very far on a toroidal map and I'd need like 6 to do it.
We'll have Engineering next turn -- anyone have thoughts on the next tech to go for?
haram is researching Guilds right now, so I know he doesn't have Knights to oppose mine. Barring him reinforcing his cities heavily in the next turn, we go to war. I'll have 6 cats, 2 wellies, 2 impis, 4 knights, 3 maces to throw at him, with more reinforcements already heading into the war zone to arrive on successive turns. This will be my first MP battle, so I'm both excited and scared at the same time!
We began our invasion of haram this turn. I had one fewer cat than I thought because it didn't quite have enough move to keep up with the stack, so I held it back in Porcupine to go in with the first set of reinforcements. My plan is as follows (and I really hope no spoilers make it to haram!):
1) Move in to point A and pillage the road...no reinforcing the outlying cities by running units past my stack when I go to stage 2.
2) Move on Tabriz and capture it, completely cutting off the outlying cities from reinforcements by land.
3) Leave a blocking force in Tabriz (the only tile he can approach from is plains, which means no terrain bonus), and move a portion of the stack back towards the outlying cities, meeting reinforcements on the way.
4) Attack Otrar and capture it.
5) Attack City #3, whatever it's name may be, and capture it.
At that point we can see where haram is strength-wise and decide if we want to keep pushing or just hold our gains.
This does, of course, presume victory, but I'm optimistic! First set of reinforcements will be (depending on moves...I'm not good at those calculations) ~ 3 cats, 3 knights, 2 maces.
We also finished researching Engineering this round, which REALLY helped by giving us +1 road movement (and allowed us to invade this round instead of having to actually cross the border next turn). I picked Compass as the next target because it opens up harbors and wharves, but I was also considering Gunpowder. Gunpowder would take ~6-7 turns, and Compass only 1, so that was one reason I went for it.
You can also see in the screenshot that haram is 6 turns from Guilds, which means he won't get to it quickly enough to help him right now. You can also see that mackoti switched from Nationalism to Alphabet, but he must not be running 100% because it shouldn't take him that long to research.
(October 8th, 2014, 13:36)Old Harry Wrote: What does he have in defence? BTW if you point to a stack when you take the screenshot it saves you typing it all out...
Otrari has a spear and an axe. Tabriz has five units...spears and axes with I believe one longbow. I don't recall off the top of my head. I expect that he will reinforce in the two turns it will take to execute my attack.
(October 8th, 2014, 13:36)Old Harry Wrote: So if he were to attack you back once he gets to Knights what would he do?
If I were him I would go after the two cities we have on a little peninsula to the south of his territory. Because they're separated by water from the rest of our empire, they're more vulnerable than anything else we have. Which is also why I had been building only units in them for the past ~10 turns. He would have to go past one city to get to the other, so that forward city is currently garrisoned with 2 impis, 2 wellies, 1 axe, 3 maces, 2 knights, and I have one more mace and knight being built. He could, if willing to build up enough force, take it, but it would cost him and he would have to weaken the other parts of his empire, which would make them more vulnerable to me and GJ. But if I succeed, if I were him I would also at least try to take back Tabriz. It's in a really good position for me (the blade of a knife pointed at the heart of his empire), so I wouldn't want an enemy squatting there if I could do anything about it.
As far as our defense goes, with Engineering knights are less threatening because we now have pikes.
The only thing I really fear is an attack from mackoti. Despite the forces I've left on that border, he has sufficient power to break through if he mounts a strong enough attack, and he's on par with us technologically.
Oh, so because of the shutdown the uploader sent out a notification that the turn finished, even though it actually didn't. But I logged in, and saw some interesting updates in the log.
1) haram finished the Great Wall, so my invasion is going to help him generate GGs now.
2) Gawdzak declared war on Donovan Zoi and captured one of his cities.
First phase of combat complete. Pillaged the road and moved the first stack adjacent to Tabriz. Will start bombarding next turn and the second stack will move forward so I can assault in two turns.
Stack 1 (adjacent to Tabriz):
Stack 2 (One square NW of stack 1):
haram whipped the crap out of a number of his cities this turn. He also moved a galley near one of his southern cities which could threaten the northern part of my empire, so I moved a trireme up that could attack next round and smash it if he doesn't move it away.
I also checked graphs, and we're not doing terrible.
Production:
You can see where Seven and mackoti have had their golden ages. Seven just started a new one but we're actually doing fairly well. We dipped because of some whipping prior to declaring war, but that'll come back up.
Crop yield:
Very middle of the road here. Not sure how wetbandit is so far ahead of us unless he has amazing land, but the others are ahead of us largely because they have bigger empires.
Power:
We're second only to Gawdzak, having passed mackoti a couple of turns ago. I used the whip some more this turn so it's going nowhere but up until we start losing units.
I'm hoping that GJ will be able to take his Ballista Elephants (which he now has available due to the Ivory I gave him -- I've seen them in his territory) and start spanking haram's Keshiks. Haram also has maces now -- one has appeared in Tabriz, either promoted or moved. Probably promoted, because there are now 6 units there, one of which is a catapult. I'll have my first treb next turn, and will have another the turn after that. Probably not in time for Tabriz, but they'll be available for the next city.
I picked Paper as our next research target (loosely based on going for Liberalism), but I'm at 0% so I can change it whenever. I'm just really not sure what to go next. Alphabet, Paper, Gunpowder, Optics, Philosophy, Divine Right (Islam still hasn't been founded), Banking (also tempting to get banks for our shrine cities). Gunpowder and Divine Right will take the longest (8-9 turns), with most of the others taking 4-5 turns. Thoughts? Gunpowder is the next logical one for warring, but some of the others would help a lot in other ways. We could also nab Archery in 1 turn which would open up Longbowmen, but I'll defer to experience on whether that is worthwhile or not. It seems like they're about to become obsolete, so it may be a waste of beakers.
Trebuchet's don't tend to get built a lot around here as they're purely offensive units, more expensive and (normally) just as likely to die as Catapults. If you're just building a couple for attacking cities that's cool, but if you're likely to need defensive collateral stick with cats.
As for research:
- When is your next golden age due? Philosopy for a quick Pacifism/GA Great Person push is useful.
- What would those Banks do for your economy at break even?
- I feel like Gunpowder is a bit premature - you've got Knights and cats so I don't see how Muskets would improve your strength (ignoring walls is nice I guess, but it doesn't seem to be a problem for you). Of course you can see what's really going on, so there may be good reason to go for them.
- You've got plenty of religions already
- If you think you can compete for Liberalism then Philo-Paper-Education-Lib is a decent route. Do you know what Mack and Seven are up to?
- Archery could be useful for overflowing beakers into Liberalism - you can put off your push for an extra turn to see if someone grabs it from you, then if they do you just put the overflow into a different tech...
(October 10th, 2014, 05:27)Old Harry Wrote: Trebuchet's don't tend to get built a lot around here as they're purely offensive units, more expensive and (normally) just as likely to die as Catapults. If you're just building a couple for attacking cities that's cool, but if you're likely to need defensive collateral stick with cats.
Yeah, I wanted to have a few for my attack stack. I certainly don't plan to replace all my cats. At least not until I get cannons!
(October 10th, 2014, 05:27)Old Harry Wrote: As for research:
- When is your next golden age due? Philosopy for a quick Pacifism/GA Great Person push is useful.
- What would those Banks do for your economy at break even?
- I feel like Gunpowder is a bit premature - you've got Knights and cats so I don't see how Muskets would improve your strength (ignoring walls is nice I guess, but it doesn't seem to be a problem for you). Of course you can see what's really going on, so there may be good reason to go for them.
- You've got plenty of religions already
- If you think you can compete for Liberalism then Philo-Paper-Education-Lib is a decent route. Do you know what Mack and Seven are up to?
- Archery could be useful for overflowing beakers into Liberalism - you can put off your push for an extra turn to see if someone grabs it from you, then if they do you just put the overflow into a different tech...
Not sure when my next GP is due...I'll check when I log in and report back. Pacifism could be expensive right now, though, because we have quite a lot of military units.
Our Confucian shrine is bringing in (as of two turns ago) 37gpt raw. So a bank would have a noticeable effect on that. Mercantilism also may be a good choice. It would cut our commerce, but give us a whole bunch of free specialists, and I have Forges everywhere for at least an engineer.
Yeah, Gunpowder didn't seem like the best option to me, either, but it is the next solidly military tech.
Two religions is enough since cultural victories don't often happen in these games. And it's a dead-end tech.
As you can see in the screenshot, mackoti is going Alphabet. I don't know what Seven is doing. I've been focusing EPs on mackoti and haram as my neighbors. It's possible we may miss, but we're competitive on tech, so it's definitely possible. I think mackoti is probably the only one who could beat us there if we bee-lined right now.
What do you mean? I know how overflow works, but I guess I don't understand the rest of your statement on putting off my push for a turn?? Is this Civilizationese?
1) Next GP is due currently in 15 turns. I can shorten that by assigning another specialist (don't think I can do more than one right now). 44% prophet, 35% engineer, smaller percentages scientist, artist, and merchant. If I get a GP, there's definitely no point in using him for anything except a GA.
2) The Kong Miao is brining in 42gpt right now raw.
I also switched EPs around so I should be able to see Gawdzak's and Seven's research in 4-5 turns.
(October 10th, 2014, 11:46)Grimace Wrote: What do you mean? I know how overflow works, but I guess I don't understand the rest of your statement on putting off my push for a turn?? Is this Civilizationese?
If you research Education to 99% and save up some cash you could then:
Turn 1 - research Education at 100% for almost a full turn's overflow
Turn 2 - research Archery at 100% for another nearly full turn of overflow
Turn 3 - decide if you put three turn's worth of research into Liberalism
You could even part-research some other cheap techs or Philosophy to get you more turns of safety. I was imagining that you'd use a Great Scientist generated in your GA to bulb part of Education, so you might need Philo, but I dunno what timings would work for you...
It sounds like a bank in the shrine city is worth 20gpt + whatever your breakeven tech rate gives you /2. That's pretty good, but it would mean you aren't going to compete for Liberalism. With a GA due in 15 turns or less going for Liberalism might just work... The presence of Mack and Seven in the game makes it less likely, but that's a good way of never trying anything.
What does he have in defence? BTW if you point to a stack when you take the screenshot it saves you typing it all out...
At least not until I get cannons!