Leader Choice

[zakalwe]

So you rate Exp > Fin?

[darrelljs]

Slightly edited chat log with uberfish:

uberfish: interesting start decision we have
Darrell: Yeah
I like sury and the mids but my micro team seems to like fin cottages better
uberfish: the SIP settler rush is crazy fast but
the capital sucks so bad
Darrell: Yeah but no spot is great
I kind if wonder if we should scout an extra turn
Its a big gamble
uberfish: the fin setups on the wine are quite nice
Darrell: If fin we should settle the wine
uberfish: i think its actually reasonable to do BW -> religion -> agri too
what I dont like about settling in place is if there's no other resource by the corn then not only is the capital bleh, but the 2nd city is bleh too
Darrell: Skip the corn?
uberfish: no, going worker worker settelr Agri arrives in time
Darrell: Interesting
uberfish: cause we are sitting at size 1 working the mined pig hill remember
Darrell: Makes sury less attractive if we have a religion
uberfish: that is for Liz or MM
gets a bunch of free culture yeah
Darrell: I like innovative...this is certainly that
Would be fun
uberfish: so would 2nd settler on t37 admittedly
uberfish: i'm not massively keen on a pyramids race tbh
Darrell: We'd win! But at what cost, its a lot of hammers and a lot of delays
uberfish: I just hate the outguessing "are they building it or not, can we afford to do it later or not"
lol
thats why Ichabod wants bismarck I think
Darrell: We'd not risk it is my guess
Which is potentialy crippling
uberfish: i think it's kind of inflexible because then we MUST build pyramids
Darrell: I like Bismarck but I think sury is just as fast and cre synergies will with cheap libs and better long term value
Mansa?
uberfish: mm and liz are the two that come to mind if doing religious stuff
i'm not sure I really remember the lightbulb list for phi
there should be FFH priests in this game
Darrell: Lol
uberfish: the idea of an elephant vulture alliance is pretty scary already
Darrell: Liz is iffy to me, I don't think fin and phi work well
Fast academy and shrine I guess
uberfish: I like her but admittedly its more of a SP view\since I guess it's easier to set up a GP farm etc
or get library
i just noted that novice and plako who obviously have a ton more MP experience than I do used her in their sims
so I guess they had a reason
Darrell: I was liz of Egypt in pbem17 and got little out of phi, but maybe I suck :-)
I built henge and got a shrine for Hinduism out of it, that was nice
I had stone, phi, obelisks
Otherwise I'd have just used religion for culture
uberfish: if we do end up with a religion then spiritual's an extra free turn on that switch and cheap temples
Darrell: Are we only team with myst?
uberfish: Inca have it
Darrell: Hmm
uberfish: we dont know what #3 has
Darrell: Spi is good, I really like it
uberfish: WTB FFH priests
Darrell: Works good with a religion as you say
uberfish: but inca will either go religion immediately, or mining->bw->religion, or wheel->pottery->religion
no chance of clashing if it's jsut them
Darrell: So with bw first we know
That's a point worth posting

There doesn't seem to be much love for Sury+Mids, and I'm not that wed to it myself. FIN+Wine+Worker/Worker/Settler+BW/Religion/Agriculture is fun, creative and worthy of this team .

Darrell

[novice]

For the record, the reason I used Liz in the sandbox is she's a "dud" - no multipliers messing up the sims.

If we're going the Fin route I much prefer Mansa Musa.

[novice]

So you rate Exp > Fin?

I'm not sure. Exp is the trait I miss the most when I don't have it.

[Ichabod]

The annoying thing about SPI/FIN is all buildings being at full cost (except temples). At least Spi + early religion makes going for Organized Religion early a good choice (since you can afford to revolt to it without revolting to Monarchy too) and that offsets that deficit a bit.

[DaveV]

The annoying thing about SPI/FIN is all buildings being at full cost (except temples).

As I understand it, cheap buildings are bonuses meant to strengthen weak traits. I hate anarchy, and love Spiritual for that reason. With some of the super civ players on this team, I'd expect us to get a lot of use out of SPI. Assuming this will be a long game, SPI should be pretty strong. More turns = more techs, more civic options, more chances to use SPI.

[darrelljs]

Nothing like half cost Granaries and Libraries .

Darrell

[novice]

The annoying thing about SPI/FIN is all buildings being at full cost (except temples). At least Spi + early religion makes going for Organized Religion early a good choice (since you can afford to revolt to it without revolting to Monarchy too) and that offsets that deficit a bit.

We could go with Darius. It's a small toroidal map, so distance maintenance will be non-trivial.

[uberfish]

One way to look at Spi is that instead of getting hammers off a commonly used building, you get free resources empire-wide from not having anarchy turns. I'm convinced on MM being a better choice than Liz for the religious plan.

I don't mind playing Exp. I would prefer not to be locked into pyramids as a strategy though, when we don't know if there'll be a suitable location to chop it, and might end up in headaches over how early we have to build it to avoid losing them to another tema.

[Ichabod]

What do you guys think of the Sumer pick? Is it just for the Ziguratts?