Toku? I do like the way that the weakest leader in BTS becomes so strong in RtR. A bit sad to see no second try at SPI, but can't query the choice. And China is just solid all the way down.
So, in this alternate universe, Hideyoshi's invasion of China through Korea was a success, and after his death Tokugawa stepped in to claim first the Middle Kingdom and then the world?
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
Tokugawa is certainly viable in Rtr mod. Playing a Spi leader again was clearly an option but some variety is probably good. I don`t think anyone wants a Spi leader this time. This snakepick is taking its time, hopefully we`ll be ready to start in a few days.
(April 8th, 2018, 13:11)Commodore Wrote: Funnier is how unattractive Pacal is now.
Pacal certainly needs lots of coast in order to make that Fin trait okay-ish. Exp is still perfectly decent in Rtr imo but I agree that Pacal is not the best of leaders.
Okay, I'm going to talk up our combo here since things are a little slow right now and it's fun. So what have we got?
- Tokugawa has nothing to speed up the first worker or Settler (mostly) but he's arguably the best in the game at getting new cities up to speed. Gilgamesh and ProInca get those second-ring tiles faster, and never have to build anything before the granary, but Toku's border-popping barracks also mean when his satellite cities build warriors, archers, and axes, they can come pre-equipped with things like Shock or CG2. All of which means - within reason - he can go lighter on defensive units than any other leader. Relatedly, the first few warriors we build before we get Hunting+BW are just a little more likely to survive encounters with barbarians and keep MPing/fogbusting for us later into the game. Throw in Agg's maintenance reductions and secondary xp buildings, and all the little things Pro gives you (cheaper Walls for Castle trade routes, easy access to CG3 Longbows and Muskets and Rifles, and still more cheap granaries for late-planted filler cities, etc.) and Tokugawa is as good at playing the long game as he is prickly early ... and late ... and everywhere in between. If we have an aggressive neighbor, Tokugawa is about the best there is at directing their attentions elsewhere, all while building up his own economy. But what about those early Workers and Settlers? Imp and Exp will certainly have us on speed. If only we had a fast-starting civ like...
- China. Still with arguably the best starting techs in the game, especially for a capital like this, China of Farmfood gets to Bronze Working as fast as anyone else in the game. And unlike Russia/Ethiopia/Khmer/BoringGrey of Pasturefood, China can go straight on to the Wheel and Pottery for our cheap Pro granaries, and keep on building MP Warriors until we're ready to found a pig city someplace, as long as we can make sure our neighbors aren't sending any chariots our way. Korea gets the same starting techs, but its UU is a cat with a bonus against units it will likely never face, and Korea's UB is pretty marginal and late. China's CKNs by contrast are the only unit in the game that can do collateral damage off of a ship, or as fast-movers in enemy territory with Barracks + [XP Civic] for G2. They're solid defenders even if they have to stay in place - among the best answers in the game to swords - and the little bit of extra synergy from Pro is just the icing on the cake. The under-rated Pavillion, meanwhile, though not spectacular by any means, provides a solid edge in culture wars exactly where you need it: In cities where you wanted to build a Theater anyway.
So is ours the best combo in PB39? Hahahahahahaha no. We were stuck with a late pick after Zulu and Inca were gone, and in a field of eight, the early pickers were guaranteed good combos for those. (And I still love the Mongols for a Hunting start too, though I think I'd have taken Aztecs first with a Hunting start and this settings.) But Sinogawa going to make it tough on anyone who wants to invade, and if JR4 plays this one out as well as he did PB37, there's a very real chance we could come out on top of this game.
Yes, I pretty much agree with what you said in the last post. Our UU can be very strong indeed if we can manage to surprise our foes with collateral damage from ships or nasty G2 Cho-Ko-Nus moving quickly in rough terrain. I think we need to discuss a Machinery beeline here. Getting our special unit early can be very good. It does take care of all melee units, including Maces, and can defend itself if we decide to go on the offense.
Our UB comes into play in the mid game, ideally giving us an edge in a cultural war or the final push for Culture victory. I don`t think it will be too relevant in this game but hey, you never know.
Bronze Working - The Wheel - Pottery makes a lot of sense with our traits. We could consider getting Archery soon thereafter if we need to defend our cities but more likely we will need techs like Animal Husbandry and/or Fishing before that.
Ipecac and Dark Savant got very good combos. As for Wetbandit, he`s got a militaristic leader combined with an even more aggressive civ! Um, we`d rather not end up anywhere near ipecac or Wetbandit (we need to neighbor at least one other player to have a decent chance of winning imo). I`m happy to border Dark Savant again as his UU isn`t as scary as those nasty Oromos we encountered last time.
And we are underway! We got the right techs for China.
There was a forested hill 2NW of the starting tile so the Scout went there and found.. a wet Rice just outside our soon-to-be bfc. Not bad. No other resources were revealed, though. We settled in place. I haven`t thought about a naming scheme yet. Any suggestions? I haven`t ended turn yet, just need a bit of time to sim out the start. We`re definitely going Bronze Working first here.
Our Scout went 2NE to check out the potential city site 3N of Beijing. It revealed a Sheep in the NE but nothing too exciting, really. I strongly suspect that there is an Oasis S of that plains hill I highlighted. The Scout can go there next turn to check out the area.
Can someone cover for me April 19th to April 22? I`m going on a trip and won`t have internet access those days. I expect to be back Sunday evening. I`ll post instructions and at this stage of the game the turns shouldn`t take too long.
Looks like we're off to a good start! I'm curious about what the scout will reveal next, and your suspicion that ther's an oasis tile down there looks right to me, based on the mouse-over information for that plains hill - good eye! If the grassland between the scout and hill also has fresh water, that would cinch it.
The worker's first few moves seem pretty obvious to me, but do we have a plan for build order after the worker is finished in the city?
I can't cover turns during your trip unfortunately (apart from my schedule, which as advertised and as you've probably noticed already precludes the kind of daily commentary I managed to offer in PB37, I still don't have the kind of internet connection needed to support logging in to a Pitboss game) so I hope another lurker, spoiled or not, can play!
