[SPOILERS] ARRR Ye Scurvy Dogs! Hannah the Irin

[Jkaen]

Form of the titan been built yet?

Command post (per city) if you can get a great commander somewhere?

[Mardoc]

Form of the titan been built yet?

Command post (per city) if you can get a great commander somewhere?

Oh, yes, Thoth stole the Form way back in the early days. Except for Great Library, which Nyktorion built, Thoth has all the wonders.

And I think command posts may be the real reason he went Organized, but I'm going to be out of luck there until the first major battle at least.

[NobleHelium]

It would take some sort of empire wide production boost to close that kind of gap. Some kind of guild of hammers. :neenernee

Bad luck on losing the wonder. Sounds like it would have been something of a game changer.

EDIT: Something to consider if going for drown Stygian's, they are undead and vulnerable to fire. But on the plus side, a tower of necromancy build will give them all the Strong promotion, making Iron Stygians S10 units.

I'm pretty sure Stygians are demons and not undead. Drowns are undead.

[Selrahc]

But Mardoc's scheme is to upgrade warriors into drowns, then drowns into stygians. Stygians upgraded from drowns remain undead.

[Mardoc]

Vulnerable to fire will be annoying, since I know Thoth has fire mana and Ritualists. And maybe even Towers of Light, if he ever researches Sorcery. But he was probably going to be able to reach the damage cap anyway if he hits first, so this is nothing new. What is new is the potential for Malakim life mages to just wipe me out. I guess that comes back to assassins and making sure to hit first, not second.

Tower of Necromancy is tempting. Although I'd pretty much have to borrow everything from the Sheaim, with only one node of my own.

Wait...I'll have Shadow from Nox Noctis, he'll have Death and probably Entropy, that only leaves Chaos which I already own...this is doable. Well, except for the .67*800 hammers bit. Not doable before the war. If we win against Thoth, though, then it will be worth doing.

Does anyone know if I'm right about the cost to upgrade Drown to Stygian?

[DaveV]

Does anyone know if I'm right about the cost to upgrade Drown to Stygian?

Upgrade cost is difference in hammers * 2 + 5.

[Mardoc]

Upgrade cost is difference in hammers * 2 + 5.

Ah, that's better than I thought, that means upgrading a Drown to a Stygian is only 45 gold, for a total Warrior to Drown cost of 105.

Thanks!

[uberfish]

Fire resistance/vulnerability doesn't really make that much difference against ritualists, 3 ritualists will generally take everything to 60%.

[NobleHelium]

But Mardoc's scheme is to upgrade warriors into drowns, then drowns into stygians. Stygians upgraded from drowns remain undead.

So wait, they have both demon and undead promotions? Or they just don't get the demon promotion? Are there undead demons?

[Mardoc]

Called it!

[COLOR="Cyan"]Hi (I've CCed Mist as he will soon be the Elohim turnplayer)

To start with, I'd like you both to keep this confidential.

I'm becoming concerned about Heisenburg. While I am grateful that he volunteered to replace Irgy, some of his recent actions have disturbed me. The main concern is that he has broken our NAP by killing a Elohim Caravel with a Privateer without a word, which gives me the impression that he does not value peaceful relations with the Elohim. That, along with the fact that he has little motive to contribute to the dogpile (since he gains no land out of it), has lead me to believe that he will likely turn against me while my forces are dealing with Thoth.

This will unfortunately affect my commitment to the dogpile. I will say right now that I can not send troops into Malakim territory unless my other borders are safe. Given Heisenburg's recent actions, I doubt that he can provide me with that. On the other hand, I'm aware that if I don't attack the Malakim, he won't have to worry about my border with him which gives him the freedom to send more troops to your borders. Therefore it seems that the best way to solve this problem is to quickly get rid of Heisenburg so I can turn my attention back to attacking Thoth.

I know that this will delay my attack which will hurt our chances. However, I do want to make sure I'm carrying my weight, even during a unforeseen distraction. To that end I will share with you that I should be completing the Infernal Palace within a few turns and am willing to send both of you a free Iron loan if it will help either of you against Thoth. If there's some other way I can help I'd be happy to do so.

Regards,
WarriorKnight[/COLOR]

Now...do I try to talk him out of it, try to get my free Iron? Or just assume that it's happening and work on keeping Heisenberg alive for my Ice mana? I think Ice is more valuable. If I ask now, I might get the Iron anyway. It sounds like WK is trying to have his cake and eat it too, by getting Thoth damaged without having to fight, and instead absorb the Sheaim lands.

I can't really see why Heisenberg would have attacked the caravel, although maybe he figured war was inevitable and he might as well.

Only... I really don't see how WK is sure it was Heisenberg's privateer. Maybe Thoth or Nyktorion killed it. Maybe it never happened, and this is like the "polish attacks on german border guards" Sept 1, 1939. Certainly the 'oh no, the Sheaim are going to stab me' is similar, given Sanctuary and their relative power levels.

I do think WK has no reason to expect confidentiality on this when he didn't ask before sending...but I think since Heisenberg is expecting war anyway, I don't need to leak this message, just get my Hawks and assassins over there ASAP, or give up on Heisenberg entirely. But I lean toward supporting Heisenberg, even at the cost of relations with WK. Mostly because a post-Thoth world with WK and Nyktorion triumphant looks grim to me, nearly as bad as the world with Thoth in it does now. Those two are definitely working together, at least until Nyk needs more expansion room.

Finally...what to do about Nyktorion. Apparently he declared war on Thoth last turn, and has a long NAP with WK; I'm thinking Nyk's in the position I want him to be anyway, or as close as I can get him.

The only alternative I see, really, is to play dumb and try to get allied with Nyktorion against the new threat to the game, WK, after the Thoth war is over. But I don't think I can really sell that. Either Nyk sees the real argument, which is the WK left us hanging while focusing on personal growth, or he doesn't; I don't think anything I say can or will change that.

Well, it's going to be an interesting next few turns, to say the least.