T44 played. I did accidentally move a warrior instead of a worker first - so I didn't mean for this warrior to be here, but regardless I chopped as planned:
Granary complete EoT:
Blades of Glory grew onto the deer:
Somebody built Henge:
Based on points change that's [strike]pretty clearly TEAM. Huh, wonder if Menagerie blew it or what? Weird.[/strike]... actually that could be a few teams - I think land points are screwing with the scores this turn. Next time I login I'll check the top-5 cities screen to see who got it. Our scouting warrior spies Marble:
Like freaking everything on this map, it's difficult to reach . Demos:
I'm pretty convinced on skipping religion; however, since we don't immediately need Agriculture in the next few turns I ran one more turn at 0%. We need to have a chat now about our plans with our new knowledge of copper. That's today's job.
1) Orphaning a fish is never an option if you can avoid it, so we'll have to settle fish 1NW of the sugar. That means a silk/copper city is not really plausible. Copper would probably have to be 1E of the copper as that has first-ring crab. Overall, I'm not crazy about settling this next. That's a TON of worker turns just hooking this city for an otherwise pretty average site. We need 3 roads to hook to the capital (by river, 4 for unit movement), not to mention roading and mining the copper. Well I dunno, it's not a bad site, but it's certainly not great, and it's a backfill. I'd prefer to push for horse.
2) Seven, why would you suggest Agriculture next? We have no need for farms very soon, and we already have Pottery and AH, so it's not like it unlocks a prereq bonus. I'm missing the value here. I'd think our path should be Writing-> Maths-> Calendar right now, and the only question is to Archery or not to Archery as a safety net.
3) My thought for now is to just go for Writing-Maths-Calendar, slipping Agriculture (the Wheat @ horse site) and Mysticism (Monuments) in there at some point. We're safe from Trolls via NAP, and I'd like to try to speed Menagerie talks. My only hesitance is their weird border thing feels a bit stall-ish, but if we can control that, ignoring archery and settling horses sounds great.
scooter Wrote:2) Seven, why would you suggest Agriculture next? We have no need for farms very soon, and we already have Pottery and AH, so it's not like it unlocks a prereq bonus. I'm missing the value here. I'd think our path should be Writing-> Maths-> Calendar right now, and the only question is to Archery or not to Archery as a safety net.
I thought wheat/corn ivory was our best available city spot by far.
SevenSpirits Wrote:I thought wheat/corn ivory was our best available city spot by far.
Agreed, especially since the wheat is wet, which I didn't realize at first. Would our fourth city then go 1S of the horse? I think these are our strongest city locations, but I wonder if they are too backfilly.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
SevenSpirits Wrote:I thought wheat/corn ivory was our best available city spot by far.
Merovech Wrote:Agreed, especially since the wheat is wet, which I didn't realize at first. Would our fourth city then go 1S of the horse? I think these are our strongest city locations, but I wonder if they are too backfilly.
Here's what this would look like:
Obviously with all these cities you want to consider the first ring primarily given the inevitable delay of border popping that will happen. This is probably our wisest course of action for our next two cites, it just doesn't claim a ton of land for us. This is probably still our best two spots though.
Well, if we can get border proposals set, we don't have to worry about back-filling too much. Hopefully Menagerie will be reasonable.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Random note - Pirates have logged in twice this turn without finishing their turn. Given their war with Menagerie, I think it might be fair to guess it's a hot war and not a phony like our war with TEAM. Either way that's good news to us. This is obviously not conclusive proof, but it sure looks like looking around, having further discussion, then looking some more. That's more typical for unplanned things. They also whipped 2 turns ago, FWIW.
I agree that corn/wheat/ivory is our strongest available site, and should be our next city. When should we plan to revolt to Slavery -- while the settler is on the move is the usual approach, but would we want to whip anything before then? Would we want to whip the settler itself?
What to build here next is actually our next decision. Would like to hear input. I have a couple ideas, but I'm going to try to sim a little first. Demos:
Well, in Blades of Glory we definitely need to at least build a warrior in the short-term to get to sz3. After that though, settler/worker would make sense. Probably worker.
![[Image: t44_chop.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t44_chop.JPG)
![[Image: t44_occam.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t44_occam.JPG)
![[Image: t44_bog.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t44_bog.JPG)
![[Image: t44_henge.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t44_henge.JPG)
![[Image: t44_scout.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t44_scout.JPG)
. Demos:![[Image: t44_demos.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t44_demos.JPG)
![[Image: t44_west_dotmap_attempt.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/dotmapping/t44_west_dotmap_attempt.JPG)
![[Image: t45_overview.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t45_overview.JPG)
![[Image: t45_occam.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t45_occam.JPG)
![[Image: t45_bog.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t45_bog.JPG)
![[Image: t45_demos.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1/t45_demos.JPG)