[SPOILERS] Lurkers Thread - Well someone has to do it

[Maksim]

Mist is running an interesting, though definitely a below potential game at the moment.

He self-researched Agriculture, is teching towards Calendar, and got Crafting from the hut.

At the moment, what will Calendar give him? A revolution and a switch to Agrarianism? Sure, it'd be a good benefit to food for the one or two farms he'd be running - except that had he stayed in the original location at the start of the game, he'd have access to flood plains, which would give him the same benefit of +1 food per tile compared to grassland for free.

His Calendar-enabled capital at size five will work two forested silks (2-1-1 and 1-2-1), two grassland farms (4-0-1) and a forested hill (0-3-0), with a reasonable food overflow.

What can he do next? Mining sounds logical (will allow him to see copper) - but if he cuts down the forests on silks, he's reducing his already meager supply of hammers at the capital. Don't forget that he's only got a single hill in his fat cross.

It's just not looking too promising right now.

[Mardoc]

Maksim - now that we know Mist is planning to build his military out of food and commerce (upgraded workers), does that change the analysis any? It seems to me that it might; a plantation'd silk produces lots of both, plus giving the chopped hammers. In addition to that, Calendar seems to be mostly valued as a waystation toward Festivals.

Now, I grant that workers are much less efficient than warriors, since they require more food+hammers and more gold for the eventual upgrade; it's only outweighed by the C&D considerations. But given the goal of a horde of workers and gold to upgrade them, I think Mist's tech path makes more sense than previously.

[The ShiningOne]

I don't know about that proposed rush force. Sciz will actually have construction, possibly built Barnaxus, and have access to wood golems (strength 6 units) by the time Mist's forces get there. As long as he stays on his intended tech path.

[NobleHelium]

I think Mist can definitely replace one of the workers with two warriors (if not more). Anyone discovering that many workers that early in the game is going to realize something fishy is going on and is eventually going to figure it out. He can position the warriors between him and Sciz and say he's fog busting or whatever, and they wouldn't slow his advance much with their lack of movement.

Although if he seriously isn't going to establish contact with Sciz before the hammer comes down I guess going with workers makes sense. But if he gets contact then I'd say he's better off with some warriors.

[WarriorKnight]

3) Build a monument! There are no hills in the first ring of the new city, judging by the tile bleed, so his production will be slow; his research, on the other hand, will be great once the riverside incense plantation is complete

Varn is Creative to start off with right? So a monument isn't needed to get the gold inside his borders. (Although going for Exploration instead of either Mysticism or Mining seems unnecessary ATM)

[Rowain]

Turn 25 and the Vampires get Hunting from a Hut as if they need any help.

[Maksim]

Varn is Creative to start off with right? So a monument isn't needed to get the gold inside his borders. (Although going for Exploration instead of either Mysticism or Mining seems unnecessary ATM)

D'oh! Yeah, that narrows down the difference between early God King and early mine considerably.

[DaveV]

Turn 25 and the Vampires get Hunting from a Hut as if they need any help.

Meh. It's not something that's on their priority tech path. Hawks are really cool, but hunters aren't that great. If they want to capture animals, they'll have to research Animal Husbandry, another off-path tech.

They do have a deer to the south, so it will be nice for them to be able to camp it. Dragon Bones and elephants are almost certainly too far away for them to gain any benefit.

If they had gotten Education or Mining, then the other players could complain.

[Maksim]

Maksim - now that we know Mist is planning to build his military out of food and commerce (upgraded workers), does that change the analysis any? It seems to me that it might; a plantation'd silk produces lots of both, plus giving the chopped hammers. In addition to that, Calendar seems to be mostly valued as a waystation toward Festivals.

It does. With Calendar-enhanced farms in play, each 4-0-1 tile provides an extra 2 food\hammers to go towards worker production. That's strictly better than a forested hill, which only grants 1 food\hammer and no commerce. So you are right, the tech path makes sense.

The original point still stands; he'd benefit more from having access to the floodplains - although that is canceled out somewhat by settling on the plains hill, so his current setup will only be 1 food\hammer behind at four citizens. At five, though, he'd be forced to work one of the forested silks for only a +1 food\hammer, whereas the original location could support five farms, so he'd be at (1 from city tile + 3*2 from grassland farms + 2*3 from floodplains farms) = 13 food\hammers. With the current location, he's at (2 from city tile + 4*2 from grassland farms + 1*1 from silks) = 11 food\hammers.

That's the difference between five and six workers in the same amount of time.

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Now, as to the actual plan, it would be interesting to see how it works. Two scouts, six warriors (once upgraded) - not too shabby. On the other hand, the "magic dwarves" built their capital on the hill, and their mud golem does have a defense of two, so scouts won't have odds on it. Between +25% from the hill, +25% innate city defense and the culture bonus, Mist will need to have two warriors per each defender, I guess. So, would Sciz have three or more warriors in the capital at that point? Unlikely, but not impossible.

In that case, Doviello can't take the city reliably. They can pillage but so what? This is a deadlock that will bring both civilizations down, not just the dwarves, so Sciz might be able to get away with minor tribute payments.

[DaveV]

The big question: can two scouts reliably defend the stack in transit? Two barb units could wipe the whole stack, and then he's out of the game.