[SPOILERS] Bismark of Sumeria (luddite + Atlas1998)

[luddite]

Here's my thoughts on the subject. I haven't decided what to do yet, I'm just thinking through the possibilities.

There's 4 options that I can think of. I can go south, to attack the bottom city. I can go west, to try and take out his western cities. I can fortify on the forest hill deer tile next to Hagi. I can pull back, and either wait for catapults or make peace.

Let's say I go southwest onto the cows. It looks like he's only got 3 workers in the area, so he can't quite build the two roads necessary to attack me with his main stack. He woudln't want to do that anyway, he'd just move into Dobrin and wait. I can't beat that big stack by attacking across the river into a 40% culture hill city, so I'd have to keep moving south. I don't think he has enough units to beat me on an open battle there, so I could take out the bottom city. But then I'd be stuck in a very vulnerable position, with him quickly building enough units to take out my army. I could maybe evacuate some via galley, but I'd lose most of them. It's not worth trading 20+ units for that small city, even if it is giving him gold.

I can maneuver around so that I'm on the forest deer hill. That would be funny. After fortifying there I'd get a massive +100% defense bonus, so he'd need something like 14 catapults to clear out my army. I could sit there and wait for catapults and reinforcements. He'd be forced to keep most of his units in Hagi to defend it, so maybe I could threaten other cities with small forces. This is an all-or-nothing move. Once I fortify on that tile, the only way my army can leave is if I take Hagi.

If I go west- I need to check the micro on this, but I'm prety sure that as long as I keep pillaging roads behind me, he can't catch me. At least, not in an open battle. I could then raze his western copper city. Cutting off his copper supply could be huge. I doubt I'd be able to get both of his western cities though. And this is another all-or-nothing move, because bringing my army back will be very difficult.

meanwhile I've got my pillaging force, and reinforcements coming. I wonder if I can do damage to them, or if sending in a small stack would just be suicide against his catapults.

If I pull back, I think I'd have to make peace. This was about the best opportunity I could get for going in. by the time I've got catapults, he'll have even more units, and then I'll need more units, and so on. cats vs. cats just isn't good for offensive wars- I'd need to wait for knights.

More thoughts on this. I really don't like the idea of fortifying on the deer next to Hagi. Yes I'd be safe there for a long time, but what would it accomplish? All it would really do is stop him from working that one deer tile. I wouldn't be able to pillage anything else, because he could just keep 10 axes in Hagi to defend it, and use the rest to take out any pillaging units I sent in.

The westward option is a huge gamble. I think it would come down to him attacking me on the hill, with a lot of 50-50 battles. If I did well, I might be able to promote and take down his survivors, and then take Hagi. If I did badly, I'd lose my whole army for nothing, and then maybe lose Lupu.

Another option I just thought of is to move NW, and pillage around the north of Hagi. It wouldn't take out any cities, but could at least slow down his production a lot.

But honestly peace is looking much better right now. I've still got a lot of land, and I could rebuild and figure out what to do about the long term situation.

[luddite]

Alright, I decided to go for peace. I wonder if I can still get that G scientist from him that Ioan offered earlier... well anyway, if they don't want peace now, or demand unreasonable concessions, I can pillage Hagi for a while.

I have to compliment you guys- it's really remarkable how many units you were able to build in such a short time. I thought I could finish you off, but looking at it now I'm not sure that I can. So, I'd like bring up peace one more time, and hope we can work something out. As a first step towards peace, I decided not to do any pillaging this turn.

In other news... I finally got a great prophet! The culmination of a long, long plan of wonders and gpp planning. The shrine will add 7 gpt and hopefully spread hinduism a little bit, because so far the spread of hinduism has been pathetic.

[luddite]

They also want peace, so I guess this is the end of the war. Sorry to disappoing any lurkers who were hoping for more action.

[COLOR="Magenta"]Hi Luddite !

Seems that you realize that the cost of a total war is/will be crippling ... which is OK.
Macedon "checked-out" a little bit your stack ... but mainly the raport of force didn't changed this turn - so I assume that you will not change your mind.
Our main concern is to not offer you a "short-term" peace and in 10 turns you to come with more units & catapults ... or to perform a naval invasion from Silver City. If we will manage together to figure out a way to avoid these issues ... a longer peace-deal could be obtained.
First of all - for how long do you intend to sign the peace ?

Regarding additional forces - would you agree to a periodic exchange of "Military Advisor" overview-screenshot in order to have a ... Mutual Assured Non-Catapult proliferation ?

Best regards and congratulations for your game until now - fighting a war which bring you 4 cities and building Great Library in meantime is a good achivement !

Ioan

[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Yeah I understand your concern. I'm trying to think what would be the best way to arrange this. I can certainly agree to exchanging screenshots of the military advisor screen. Another thing we could do is agree to an arms reduction, where we both delete some of our units, to reduce the cost of the military. And we could sign a long term NAP- say, until turn 190?

We should also work out how we're going to set up the border in your east. I'm planning to settle on the tile 1N of the copper, and expand the borders of Lupu by 1, so I'd have territory on the line of 3 tiles (desert hill, grass hamlet, grass forest). But, I won't try to push culture out past that to get into a culture war.

I know you're lacking happiness resources, so I'd be willing to gift you silver as soon as I get a second source of silver. I'm hoping you'll spread hinduism in your cities, and I might be able to send missionaries later if you need them. With extra happiness and the pyramids, you might still be able to recover your economy.

-Cheers,
Luddite[/COLOR]

[luddite]

wtf? He did this though. And what's most annoying is that he won all those battles at low odds. His first 3 axes were at 32% odds, and the last was at 47%. I don't understand what he was trying to accomplish here. Just to get the GG?

[luddite]

Oddly, him doing that gives me an opportunity to destroy Dobrin like I originally planned. Do I end the negotiations and continue fighting?

[luddite]

Composite picture of all the different stacks on the battlefield right now.

[NobleHelium]

How would you take Dobrin now, again?

[luddite]

How would you take Dobrin now, again?

just move down to take the worker, then attack it with everythign I've got. I guess I'd need to get lucky with the rolls to finish it, though. He has a total of 18 units that could reach the city, but only 3 archers and 4 full strength axemen get high odds of victory against me.

[luddite]

Although I'm still frustrated that I couldn't finish him off, I made peace with mackoti. At least I can feel good about the difference in our city list

[NobleHelium]

So what are the peace terms?