Guild Wars!

[Hawkmoon]

Didn't even know a RB guild existed until someone mentioned Hawkmoon's name by accident in LL guild chat. Nice pink spots. Really, I'm rather jealous of the tabard.

*snip*

I played with Hawkmoon a bit, and led the team... but I've found myself of a completely different playstyle than the team I played with. Hawkmoon herself was a perfect team player, and continued a forced variant style where none was needed.

That bloodstone mission was new to everyone from RBD, and not to me or Scrape in the LL's guild. At that point, the caution everyone else has when facing a new thing for the very first time... just wasn't necessary with me. Naturally, teamplay isn't compatible.

Oooooh, my name is infamous!!

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by "continued a forced variant style where none was needed" - is that a compliment or an insult? And what does it mean, anyway?

And what does "Naturally, teamplay isn't compatible." mean?
(not trying to be a jerk, I'm honestly confused!)

I had a great time playing over the weekend - especially with RB and LL buddies. I think that many of the deaths were attributable to the fact that we just don't know the game system (and especially the skill system) that well yet. Just think how awesome our Guild team will be when we've figured out how everything really works! [and yes, the pink tabards really have to go! when the game launches we'll have to pool resources so that one of us more, um, how do I put this?... less flamboyant members than Sirian can start the RB Guild asap and choose the tabard...Sorry, Sirian! ]

[Sirian]

Sure, sure, a boring bib desired by low key members who are embarassed by the lack of fashion sense they think my choice exhibits. Have you taken into account the chaos that will arise in guild on guild combat? Our tabard will act like a bullseye, but their lack of bright color will do the same for us in reverse AND we'll be used to it that way. "Deconflicting" friendly assets is the paramount mission of tactical logistics. The pink might give us advantage in up to three areas -- target recognition speed, shock factor in disorienting opponents, and "colorful" humor (pun intended) to lighten the atmosphere -- maybe more, depending on the worth of interface shortcuts during guild battles. I guess my mind leans too much toward strategy. Go ahead and change it so that we'll look less flamboyant. It's all about the look, after all.

::shrug:: I know that many RB players will not wear Diablo items that make their chars look bad. I've even been chided by some of them for "fashion faux pas", but sorry, I wear what's fun for me, not what someone else thinks looks good or not. I "get it", but I see things a bit differently. With as many folks as there are in RB, I doubt any choice would meet with universal approval.

Whoever designs the flag in the retail version might want to get some consensus up front, to whatever degree that may be possible, because it's clearly important to some. I don't know if guilds will allow more than one administrator in the final, but I didn't see any way to add anybody, so I did all the guild inviting -- all the thankless paperwork, basically. Whoever starts the guild may be stuck with that job -- best make sure it's someone committed to looking after it.


- Sirian

[Smegged]

It's no problem, but those monsters seem to have a nasty AI on some of them. If we even had a single tank in our team for that last mission it would have been really nice though, cause that fatty hit HARD. Took around 80 life per hit IIRC.

[Smegged]

And you did a fantastic job of inviting people fast. Thanks for that.

Also, I LIKE THE PINK. It goes well with my female characters. My male ones can wear it with pride knowing that they will never go unnoticed. Besides, it's better than LEMON. Lemon is a colour that by all rights should never be "in", and when it is, should be outed immediately. Oh, and did I mention that the hottest girl I know wears pink all the time...

[Drasca]

Oooooh, my name is infamous!!

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by "continued a forced variant style where none was needed" - is that a compliment or an insult? And what does it mean, anyway?

It is a criticism, sorry. I believe it is under-utilization of skills and weapons available from being new to the game. Forced style due to new-ness is using sword and shield throughout with no weapon changes. Weapon changes (even with no skill assignment) can be pretty important. While there are great S/S skills, we could've really used some knockdown or intense hammer damage every so often. Knockdown especially important for interrupting enemy attacks and skills. Not everyone does this, but personally I also keep mage reading glasses for a boost of overall energy. Considering I had mage secondary classes, that was justified.

I don't mean insult, I just thought it was unnecessary to stick purely to sword and shield.

hat does "Naturally, teamplay isn't compatible." mean?
(not trying to be a jerk, I'm honestly confused!)

You guys were new to the mission, cautious, and weren't sure what to do. I played it way too much and had different expectations. I was aggressive, and sure of survival no matter what I do (because there's always a counter-action available).

For example, the "football" mission which required carriers could be rushed (score all the shrines before the enemy touches us) or we could whittle down the carriers one by one. Either was acceptable, and we took out everyone.

Ok. I knew the enemy would come out of the other side of our diamond path and carriers would bee-line toward our shrines while other white mantle minions would just hang around. I should've told you guys that, but it escaped my mind. So with that knowledge, I moved on forward while everyone lags behind in comparison.

Or, when there are Enemy mages who'll ambush the lot of us with their heat damage. I say retreat and run back. Some don't get the message and stay with the group because that's the team mentality. Stick together! Stay in there! And yet... that can be the wrong thing to do.

I think that many of the deaths were attributable to the fact that we just don't know the game system (and especially the skill system) that well yet. Just think how awesome our Guild team will be when we've figured out how everything really works!

You've really hit the nail on the head. I thought you guys just didn't know what to do or how to maximize what you're given. Multiple weapon slots? Use them. Interesting skill changes with weapon dependencies? Switch to hammer to knockdown, interrupt, charge, and dish out damage. Switch back to sword and shield when in the thick of thinks, tank melee and use those defensive stance skills that block and parry melee attacks 50 and 75% of the time. Maximize what you have You didn't because you didn't know you could, or that it was that useful and I thought that was being forced into a variant style. Sword and shield only? Not necessary unless you want extra challenge or a specific role.

I don't really care about deaths. Die? Fine. Lag and a matter of chance happens. Do it out of calculated risk and gambles. Die because we're being stupid? Stand still while we're being pounded by mage artillery fire? Um. No.

How the white savant's searing heat ambush really bothered me. I ran forward past the knights and hit ctrl-click target asking everyone my target... and almost no one followed. The more immediate knight threat was attacked instead, and subsequently everyone attacking the knight was hit by searing heat's group spell attack. Half the party died. I managed to run to the savants and run all the way back --asking everyone to retreat also...

and soul edge's reply? Stay there. Ok. I'm a coward for running. Fine. I'm not playing teamwork? Well team was being dumb. Didn't follow me to rush the mages either.

My fault in this matter? I should've briefed about the ambush beforehand. Tactical information is gold in this game.

and yes, the pink tabards really have to go! when the game launches we'll have to pool resources so that one of us more, um, how do I put this?... less flamboyant members than Sirian can start the RB Guild asap and choose the tabard...Sorry, Sirian! ]

I guess I'm just as flamboyant as Sirian Count me out of the flag making then. Although... I do like red.

Last note on that aurora glade mission itself:
I charged into the behemoth because at that point, I just didn't care. Although, I did expect backup on him. Didn't get it. That last part was really impossible to screw-up, so there's no worry on "losing" at the "last moment." Traditionally, I should've switched to range until the behemoths are whittle down... but there are only three enemies that are utterly predictable, immmobile and therefore avoidable with their limited range and detection capabilities. Heck, they fall asleep when we're not attacking. I wasn't worried. Two firestorm blasts, a little ranged attack and they're done for.

There was also another mission after aurora glade in a place called Riverside Providence, reachable by Denravi (where we are after aurora glade).

I greatly enjoyed the tactical challenges, exploring of mission options in the PvE Coop missions and discovery of sub-quests available. I'm sorry that the LL's and others think so little of GW. I personally think a number of their experiences were poor from improper utilization with controls and idiot teammates.

PvP only? Hardly. At least its done well. WoW, like traditional MMoRPGs PvPs aren't even consensual. I don't like that, at all. No.

My complaints are mainly logistical. I want the ability to invite friends into the mission area I'm already in--if possible. There's potential abuse of skill system if it allows multiple exist/entries, but... there must be a way to deal with that. Ability to find friends and invite them. Show location of friends on the list(with toggle to stay invisible location from friend). Stuff like that.

The pet can get very powerful, people just haven't realized you have to nurture it. Early on, just having it in the mission and completing the mission (while its dead). Eventually, it is as powerful as you are. For a ranger, that means a pet tank, free inunterrupted ranged abilities and a chance to use area attacks effectively.

I believe a lot of complaints comes out of not knowing how to use abilities effectively, or at all. Bolty complained about not even knowing how to use spells... err. That's not good. Someone else complained about never having enough supplies to ever craft. Duh... TRADE! There are supply and demand markets. Work with me.

Not able to craft, a builder? Be a merchant. Buy and sell so that people can do so.

Limited thinking, limited inability to grasp the skill and economic system available, limited ability to enjoy the experience available.

These kids just don't understand Mmorpgs sometimes, or their respective cross-bred hybrids. Aye Aye aye. (That doesn't make me sound like Alpha from Power Rangers, does it?)

[Drasca]

Ha! Actually, he hits for 50-60 damage and has a regular 10-15 damage attack. I was consistently hit for 13 with my real tank--which I can easily absorb with the "healing hands" skill which heals me for 13 each time I am damaged. Heck, anything less than that *heals* me--so bring the mobs on!

In "tank" setup, I could solo that fatty white mantle justicator Halbion. Shield stance, block 75% of everything for 18 seconds. Parry stance, parry 50%+ of everything based on tactics skill for 8 seconds. Endure: Gain temporary 180 hp for 13 seconds. Self-heal for 50 in 2 seconds. Hehe. That fatty couldn't touch me. I only didn't have knockdown, which would've clinched being able to solo that guy--especially while my teammates attacked it from range.

[SoulEdge]

How the white savant's searing heat ambush really bothered me. I ran forward past the knights and hit ctrl-click target asking everyone my target... and almost no one followed.

I can assure you that I always goes for cleric and mage type first, except when there is a monk henchmen and she is under attack (trolls are clever!)and I always respond to the ctrl-click.

and soul edge's reply? Stay there. Ok. I'm a coward for running. Fine. I'm not playing teamwork? Well team was being dumb. Didn't follow me to rush the mages either.

Guilty for the first retreat call, I didn't even notice it until I killed the target I was on. I did retreat the second time you call that.

And for your information, you were the one who called me a coward in the final battle, when I was standing right there tanking and pelting the enemy because most of the team was down and I know you could res them, it's not my fault the enemy being smart and targeted you instead of me, or perhaps you drew aggro before I could since most of the time you just charge ahead without waiting for the rest. I was offended and try to rebut, and forgot to watch my life and got killed (that's my only death in the mission).

Not trying to be arrogant but I really do think I play a good caster and I know what I am doing.

[Hawkmoon]

It is a criticism, sorry. I believe it is under-utilization of skills and weapons available from being new to the game. Forced style due to new-ness is using sword and shield throughout with no weapon changes. Weapon changes (even with no skill assignment) can be pretty important. While there are great S/S skills, we could've really used some knockdown or intense hammer damage every so often. Knockdown especially important for interrupting enemy attacks and skills. Not everyone does this, but personally I also keep mage reading glasses for a boost of overall energy. Considering I had mage secondary classes, that was justified.

I don't mean insult, I just thought it was unnecessary to stick purely to sword and shield.

You guys were new to the mission, cautious, and weren't sure what to do. I played it way too much and had different expectations. I was aggressive, and sure of survival no matter what I do (because there's always a counter-action available).

*snip*

How the white savant's searing heat ambush really bothered me. I ran forward past the knights and hit ctrl-click target asking everyone my target... and almost no one followed. The more immediate knight threat was attacked instead, and subsequently everyone attacking the knight was hit by searing heat's group spell attack. Half the party died. I managed to run to the savants and run all the way back --asking everyone to retreat also...

I played S/S the entire time because I made the choice at the beginning of the weekend to push Swordsmanship as high as I could, to see what effect that would have on damage, and to try out different sword skills. Had it not been a time-limited character (I knew she was only going to exist for 72 hours!), I probably would have built for multiple weapons. However, the other factor is also the limitation to 8 skills to take into a mission. I carried 5 warrior skills and 3 monk skills the whole time - with only 5 warrior skills to choose from, I had 2 buff skills, 1 melee skill, and 2 sword skills. I was using all 5 of those, with the all of the melee/sword skills being used in every battle - as one was recharging, I'd use another. Had I been planning for weapon switch, my options with any given weapon would have been limited. I really wish there were more than 8 skill slots per mission...

And yes, we were new to those missions, so it's unfair of you to judge us by your yardstick of having been through them so many times.

Regarding the ambush incident, yes, we could have done better, but it's natural to try to help out a teammate who's being attacked AND is a fragile character (caster/monk). For the first time through, when we didn't even know the attack capabilities of Monk Abbots, Savants, and Sycophants, I thought we did respectably. The game is obviously designed so that you will replay missions several times - it's impossible to know what's going to work best the first time through.

I guess I'm just as flamboyant as Sirian Count me out of the flag making then. Although... I do like red.

*snip*

I greatly enjoyed the tactical challenges, exploring of mission options in the PvE Coop missions and discovery of sub-quests available. I'm sorry that the LL's and others think so little of GW. I personally think a number of their experiences were poor from improper utilization with controls and idiot teammates.

PvP only? Hardly. At least its done well. WoW, like traditional MMoRPGs PvPs aren't even consensual. I don't like that, at all. No.

*snip*

Limited thinking, limited inability to grasp the skill and economic system available, limited ability to enjoy the experience available.

I think that Sirian is right, and that before the guild is incorporated, we better have some consensus on tabard design. I'm not against loud colors (and we should have something that's easy to spot), I just...hate...pink.

I haven't read comments yet over at LL - they are mostly negative? I'm surprised. I thought the missions were challenging, and actually required thought (!) to survive. The bonus missions were a great idea, and will keep players coming back to missions until they figure out the bonuses - we certainly had limited luck on that score! I loved the monster AI, where they would behave in a semi-intelligent fashion (targeting healers, etc.). And I LOVE the fact that PvP is always consensual!

"Limited thinking," etc.? Wow, that's harsh. Hope that doesn't apply to too many of us RBers...

[KingOfPain]

Um, where do I put this post?
Come on guys... lets be a little more forgiving here and not draw conclusions while we are ALL noobs. The most experienced GW player has most no more than days of play under his/her belt still in the beginning phase of feeling the game out. No one is the expert... and lets consider too it is a new team in a new environment. How much can we expect, and is it fair to pass judgement at this point?

No doubt, we will all look back to this day and have a good laugh at how noobish we are today. I for one don't care to be no expert at this stage, and purposely remained a clueless noob, I won't read the manual, I played out the whole beta with what my starting character was born with and went naked. I wanted to make mistakes, pushed the limits (and made stupid moves) till I die. Dying is a learning process.

Discussions are good but lets keep in mind we are ALL noobs, in a new team setting and environment ;p


KoP

[Drasca]

I played S/S the entire time because I made the choice at the beginning of the weekend to push Swordsmanship as high as I could, to see what effect that would have on damage, and to try out different sword skills. Had it not been a time-limited character (I knew she was only going to exist for 72 hours!), ...

Yes, that's normally smart but... there's a feature called "attribute refund" where you could get back the cost of any given click. If I spent 13 on swords, I could gain it back into my pool and redistribute. You could have up to 10 levels (and the cost per level) at a time. With this feature, Guild wars is very forgiving in terms of exploring new skills. You would earn these refund points as you play. Although I'm not sure exactly how that worked, I only noticed I was continually regaining these units of refund. I took advantage of this refund and redistributed my entire tree several times throughout last weekend. Went from Hammer skills to Sword skills in fact, back again and over again.

With that, I was able to try just about every skill style I wanted in a given character.

I know you really wanted to go all swords, but the reasoning isn't always necessary. I hope you take it as "Wow, I could've done that? Cool!" instead of "oh he's a horrible person for calling us n00bs, and now I feel bad from the insult."

Regarding the ambush incident, yes, we could have done better, but it's natural to try to help out a teammate who's being attacked AND is a fragile character (caster/monk).

It is natural and instinctive, but it is not necessarily good. I was mainly PO'ed because while you helped out, led to a failure of communication. I announced the savant target twice (obviously not enough), and the retreat order at least once. Twice according to Soul Edge. It was wrong of me to call cowardice. Definitely none of that or boneheadedness here.

Failure to communicate in chaos? Definitely. Subsequent failure in ambush? Yep.

Aside: Ahem. Caster/monks are *not* fragile porcelain dolls. Especially monks. We all had about the same hp, although warriors slightly more--death penalty could equalize that fast.

"Limited thinking," etc.? Wow, that's harsh. Hope that doesn't apply to too many of us RBers...

I'll admit to limited thinking! I've done it more than once, and I've obviously done it here. At least its redeemable with moments of creativity and open minds.