[SPOILERS] Serdoas and Nobles Thread with a little bit of Gaspar sprinkled in

[Serdoa]

At work, so can earliest post one in around 6 - 7 hours. But I worked it through in my excel sheet and these are 2 alternatives I'm currently considering:

wb -> warrior -> worker -> worker -> warrior -> settler
Finished on T30. 3 pop. Cow and Ivory improved, 1t into a road. 2 forests chopped.

wb -> warrior -> worker -> worker (30/60) -> warrior (12/15) -> finish worker -> Granary -> finish warrior -> warrior (7/15) -> settler
Finished on T31. 2 pop (whipped 2 on T31). Cow improved and 2t into roads. 3 forests chopped. Revolted to slavery.
(I think for this one I posted the micro already in thread)

Somehow I feel that the first one is better, even though it is lacking a Granary. But it saves a forest, terrain is further developed and one of the workers has 3 turns left for roads or for a chop before the settler finishes. With a chop we could finish the Granary on the next turn actually, as it is half-price for us. That would make those two similar in chops and infrastructure, but with the first one being a pop and improvement ahead, but not in Slavery.

[NobleHelium]

Second one is not good. We definitely want to improve the ivory ASAP. Any chance we can make do with one worker? I am trying to check that right now.

If we tech Agriculture first we will push AH back two turns. I think we could go for an Agriculture -> AH -> BW one worker opening if we want to be super greedy in conserving resources.

[NobleHelium]

This is what I have for one worker.



All three units are on the same tile. It's not bad actually. If we settle next to the wheat it wastes a turn of movement due to the road being on the ivory and not the plains forest hill. (Or we can road the plains forest hill instead which would put the worker on that tile and the settler on the hill next to the wheat.)

We can build the second worker in four turns. This saves all the forests. I would do this opening most likely. Agriculture, AH, BW and Mysticism are all researched.

[NobleHelium]

Also, very important, we should immediately grow to 3 after growing to 2. Waiting for the pasture to grow is not as good, we get one more hammer into the warrior but we lose 3f in the box after growing. The settler or worker gets the same number of hammers either way, I believe.

[Serdoa]

Ok, than Agri first, I don't think that would make a problem with most ideas I have for the start anyhow, if we decide anything else. I'll put that in and finish the turn. I assume you've gone warrior -> grow to 2 -> worker?

Also I think slavery makes only sense with the granary as for 2 pop we only get 50 hammers. And Pottery + BW can't be done in time with AH teched as well. So the question will be if having the ivory is worth more than slaving the settler out. I believe slaving will be better in the long run, by virtue of having more turns to grow, but weaker in the sims up to T30/T35 as the effect of the Granary only starts kicking in after slaving the settler and regrowing.

[NobleHelium]

I don't think we should do Agri this turn because we have the hut coming up. We can put a turn into BW and then start Agri next turn. We still finish AH way before we can start the camp.

Also if we do Agri before AH that might delay BW too much for any slaving or chopping scenarios. So assuming we put the beakers into BW this turn we need to decide whether or not we need the faster BW by next turn.

I would need to see the exact slaving scenario you're describing to compare it to the ivory, is that one or two workers?

And yes my sim is with growing to 2 after the WB. No question on that front. And when I said we should immediately grow to 3 I meant right after building the worker. Not literally right after growing to 2, sorry.

[NobleHelium]

Okay I logged in and changed the tech to BW, hope you don't mind. Remember to change it next turn.

I also added several signs to clarify my sim.

AND WHY THE FUCK IS KRILL'S FUCKING SIGNATURE STILL FUCKING POINTING TO A FUCKING VERSION OF HIS FUCKING MOD FROM FUCKING 2013??

The game is being played on 3.0.0.4 by the way, I did my sim in .3. Hope there's no gameplay difference.

[Serdoa]

Hey Noble, that's fine. And no worries, I'm doing my sims on 3.0.0.1 as that is the version the wb-file we received as "starting screenshot" was built in. From 3.0.0.1 to 3.0.0.4 are only fixes and I think none of them is of interest for the early game.

As for the slaving: I'll have to go through my sims in detail again before I can post them. But that was meant more as a general comment anyway. If we get a Granary around T25 and start slaving around T30 positive effects won't be seen before T35 earliest. Also my sims obviously do also include chopping as the worker has nothing else to do then build roads and chop (well and mines). So it is hard to determine how much of an effect slaving has and how much comes from the chopping.

Anyhow, I'll post something, but probably not before tomorrow morning.

[NobleHelium]

Some general thoughts about an early granary. Granaries are great but early whipping tends to run into happiness problems, so the usefulness of a granary can be reduced because you're often going to grow back sooner than you might necessarily want. Also, we can quickly build a granary after the second city is settled by chopping, so the benefit of the earlier granary may just be for the first whip. Remember that the additional benefit of a building only lasts until when you would build the building in the other scenario.

Also more specifically here I think whipping cannot be used without at least two chops due to the nerfs, and I think we would be better off saving those chops.

[Gaspar]

I'm lurking. I like Noble's sim, it seems obviously efficient. I hate this mod.