Arendel Phaedra, the last blossom of Yggdrasil [SPOILERS]

[Ichabod]

[SIZE="2"]Turn 71:[/SIZE]

Oh man, it's been a while since my last update. Not like PBEM VI, this one kept a pretty good pace during this time, so I have a lot to report.

As you can see on the previous screenshots, I was teching education, intending to go Edu > Crafting > Code of Laws. In the end, I ended up going Edu > CoL > Crafting. Why? You ask. Well, let's see...

The maintenance in this map is crazy. It's just so, so expensive to expand. But I need to do it. Lewwyn is exapnding like crazy and I can't be left behind. I was at a critical point of the game in the last 15 turns or so, and going crafting before CoL could have been my doom. In the end, it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

After teching education, I realized that I would need a lot of turns to tech CoL. 11 turns to be exact, going binary research. But that was without settling new cities and I had to settlers near completion. So I decided to delay them in favor of teching. I build some more workers in the mean time. If I had settled those cities, I'd probably never reach CoL. So, at the rate that Lewwyn is expanding, I believe he's at CoL or, most likely, city states.

In the end, I ended up teching CoL in 9 turns, not 11. It was due to... I don't know, really, maybe cities growind and working better tiles. Anyway, that was good news. Since I was doing binary research, I had leftover gold to tech crafting in two turns.

I made a mistake with my timing, though. I thought CoL would take 11 turns, so I revolted to pacifism, intending to change back in 10 turns, when I would have CoL already. I did it so I could make a GSci in 19 turns (4.10 + 9.3 = 67), instead of 23 turns (23.3 = 69), with the pacifism bonus. But since I teched CoL faster then expected, I spent 2 turns already having aristocracy, but not being able to change. So, maybe going crafting first would have been better in the end.

BTW, crafting was good so I could get the wines online and raise my happy cap to 9. Yeah, my second city spent a long time unhappy when the event that raised its happy cap ended. I didn't realise it until after it happened.

So, onto the pictures:

First and foremost, my economy before and after aristocracy:

Before:


After:

Notice that I'm at 6 cities already in these screenshots. I'll have 9 cities soon too. Ilios settled his 5th city before me, but probably because I delayed my settlers due to the CoL rush. He also reached CoL 1t before me. But I don't think he'll be able to keep my expansion rhytm.

BTW, aristocracy is good on this map due to the maintenance reduction, not due to the buffed farms... Well, maybe a bit of both.

My civics now:

I'll build some military in the next turns, so might as well make them start with more xp. I'll return to religion to raise the happy cap once I get a religion going.

This is my breakeven tech rate:

Pretty good, I guess. But I'm saving money after teching crafting to wait for the academy soon to be made in Vallus (the GSci was born on the end of last turn). I make more then 100 beakers at 100% research.

Demographics at the end of turn 71:

Keep in mind that I'm going 100% gold here, without the GK bonus. i'm number one in GNP while going breakeven research or 100% research. And it'll get better soon with the academy. By the way, here's my GSci (the only GP that won't be a GBard in this game):

City screen:

I have 3 nice places for the settlers and I already have 1 warrior for each of the cities. No new resources will be obtained (only wheat), but I'll have a lot of food bonuses and good terrain! I might be a bit short on the workers, though, but not by much. I currently have 8, but the ratio workers x cities is slightly different in FfH, in my opinion.

Here's a picture of Vallus, the city that will get an academy. Maybe the third city could be better (better terrain - grassland foodplains, for example), but I prefer to cottage Vallus, using the plains and make 3rd city a food units pump. Still thinking about it, though.

I met DaveV in the last turnset. He's in my north, Ilios is in my south. I'm lucky, since DaveV is currently last place in score with only 3 cities. He killed my scout and asked for peace in the same turn, which I accepted. But I'm holding a small grudge over it.

I think this is DaveV's land:

Revealed through a border pop. If he keeps expanding so slowly I may be able to steal some tiles from him, maybe even making him unable to settle a city with an access to that water straight. And this made me realize that my own ivory city might be in danger of an Ilios settling to get its seafood. So I'm decided. I'll go Festivals -> Hunting -> Fishing, making one of the 3 settlers an ivory city (with furs too, so +2 happy cap).

Or maybe not... I have to see the logistics about defending a settler until that spot. It may be tricky, since there was a gripphon circling around that area a few turns ago... We will see... It'll get settled soon either way!


And here's a question for the lurkers: which do you prefer that I tech: Fellowship of the Leaves or Octopus Overlords? I'll probably get both in the end, but which one is best right now?

[Mardoc]

And here's a question for the lurkers: which do you prefer that I tech: Fellowship of the Leaves or Octopus Overlords? I'll probably get both in the end, but which one is best right now?

I wish I could answer, but I know too much I think. I appreciate the update, though .

[Ichabod]

Well, so let me rephrase the question: what is the benefit from OO that I can't get from FoL?

[Ravus Sol]

Well, so let me rephrase the question: what is the benefit from OO that I can't get from FoL?

OO has a lot more cultural power. So it's good for border wars, not sure how useful it would be for land grab during expansion.

OO also has an alternate upgrade path for your warriors, Drown then Stygian Guard. Quick and easy they are powerful and have water walking. Not sure Water supremacy will be that useful in this. The Priests tidal wave spell is very situational.

FoL makes you go through hunting which unlocks hawks and animal capture. Your forests convert, but unless you have lumbermills pre-placed its not that useful. The Priests are some of the best with summon spam. Their Shrine can be built by a Great Prophet & a Great Bard.

Short term FoL gives you recon bonuses and has the chance to get a easier shrine. OO has stronger culture and a military bonus.

Medium term FoL Priests are good forever while OO Priests are situational but strong. OO Also has easier to unlock Heros and a Wonder. FoL Only has a special Civic that is useless when running Agristocracy, It's heros are far off.

Long term FoL Can be very good for the economy with lumbermill Ancient Forests, It's epic hero is very powerful but so far away it might not matter. OO Has a Heroic Archmage but it's also quiet late. It's Stygian Guard upgrade is also far along the religious tech line.

[Ichabod]

Pretty much what Ravus said about the OO vs. FoL debate. But the little thing that I was looking for is the fact that OO would change my alignment from good to neutral, enabling the use of the slavery civic. And slavery will be the only way of getting some reliable production on this map!

But I'm still thinking about tech path... After festivals, I'm not sure if I should go Drama. If I get the GBard, I could bomb my third culture city, using the pretext that it wasn't a cultural victory play, but a "grab land from DaveV" play. Well, I'm creative, after all, and Drama could be useful, giving me theaters, for example... I'll check the number of turns that I can get Drama when I play this turn and I'll make my decision.

[Ichabod]

[SIZE="2"]Turn 73:[/SIZE]

Academy!!!

Demographics after academy and 100% research:

I'm getting 120+ beakers at 100% science, with ~50 deficit gold.


Two settlers finished at EoT. One city will be settled next turn (it'll work improved tiles from the get go!), the other on turn 76.

Another settler finishes soon for the fur + ivory spot. I'm still undecided between the hunting x drama debate. I can get hunting in 4 turns and drama in 5 (at 100% research, which can be sustained for 3 turns, so we are probably looking at 5, 6 turns, respectively).

Well, I think the best gameplay option is hunting, maybe even fishing, then drama. But drama first seems to be the coolest option while not being terribly bad. I can take a few more turns without the happiness boost from hunting. I need more workers anyway and some of my cities currently at happy cap doesn't have improved tiles to grow into. So I think I'll go drama -> hunting and build some more workers in the meantime.

[Ichabod]

[SIZE="3"]Turn 74-77:[/SIZE]

So, I finished Festivals at the EoT 73, which led to the splashscreen showing on turn 74:

I'm building a market at the capital and Tentatio-onis and I'll probably build some carnivals around too. Trinity produces 24 food + hammers per turn while building a worker. So, I need 3 turns to build a worker and I get 22 hammers overflow, which will go on a carnival. Since I get the double hammers bonus from creative, that means I'll get 44 of the 80 needed hammers just on overflow. That's very nice!

I went hunting after festivals. Hawks + happiness is too good to delay. I'll build a hunting lodge in 6 turns in the capital, then it'll produce some hawks. The fur + ivory city has a settler on the way. It's defended by 3 warriors, since it's in an area with marsh terrain (it's just like a forest, with 2 move cost) and there's a stupid gripphon wandering around. It'll be settled, if everything works, on turn 80.

Let's take a look on my two new cities:

Ventry:

Corona:

Demographics:

Before end turn, with the bonus from teching hunting (20% from prerequisites). Remember that this is my sustainable research rate:

After end turn, no bonus for tech but with the city growth already factored in:

The player with number 1 in pop is probably Tholal, who is playing the Kuriotates. He has a size 14 city already and a size 14 city shows as a lot more pop than a 2 size 7 cities. In total pop, I'm probably the leader too.

Overview shot of the empire:

My tech plans changed a bit. I want hapiness. So I think I'll tech Way of the Forests to get or founf FoL. Then, after some minor worker techs (mining, fishing, maybe archery for lumbermills), I'll go for priesthood. After that, I can think about going drama.

That's because I realized I need some defenses (I have a feeling that DaveV might be planning an attack) and I need more happiness. With FoL and religion, I can get 4 happiness (2 from state religion, 1 from temple of the leaves with religions, 1 from incense and temple), which is a lot! And with some priest of leaves, no one will dare to attack me, especially with spiritual ones. And I'll be able to kill that pre-placed defender in the fort to the west with mass summons. There're probably some goodies there! Either way, I'll found out as soon as I have some hawks (I think I can get one in 9/10 turns).

So, I need a lot more workers and to grow my cities. I think I can get to Priesthood + the mentioned worker techs before turn 100. I'll reevaluate if I really need slavery then. Then, it'll be time for going to Fanaticism -> Culture Victory. With my hero, my world spell, Priest of Leaves and Stygian guards I think I'll have a good enough defense.

[Ravus Sol]

Spiritual priests really are the easy answer to most mid-game military problems, Priests of Leaves should be very good for mass summons, they also help with happiness if you build a carnival I forgot to mention that before.

Looking at your empire again, you really are low on production, yet so is everyone else. You are number #2 on the Demos afterall. Looks like nobody else has managed to find a way to leverage in a production plan. I was going to bring up the lumbermill > Way of the Leaves joint ability again, but you don't actually have that many forests. Slavery looks like the winner. I'm not much for the actual maths though so don't take my opinion as worth anything.

[Ichabod]

Spiritual priests really are the easy answer to most mid-game military problems, Priests of Leaves should be very good for mass summons, they also help with happiness if you build a carnival I forgot to mention that before.

Looking at your empire again, you really are low on production, yet so is everyone else. You are number #2 on the Demos afterall. Looks like nobody else has managed to find a way to leverage in a production plan. I was going to bring up the lumbermill > Way of the Leaves joint ability again, but you don't actually have that many forests. Slavery looks like the winner. I'm not much for the actual maths though so don't take my opinion as worth anything.

Almost no forests and something like 4/5 hills in ALL my territory. That's why I don't even have mining yet.

OH MAN! You made me realize it, Ravus! I can use bloom to get production!!! Bloom + lumbermills! That's really, really nice! Plains lumbermills arew 1/3 tiles, so that's good enough. So FoL + Archery is an even better choice!

Thanks, Ravus! I have some planning to do as soon as I get the next save! Now I now I can build the Brewing House in Vallus and have a dedicated production city for wonders and big projects!

Units can be built using conquest (I can go 10t without aristocracy to run conquest), the problem is buildings. Slavery will help later, but I'd have to do a lot of overflow calculations to build wonders in a timely fashion. With Lumbermills + Bloom, that'll certainly be easier.

[Ichabod]

So I went with WotF to get FoL after all. 5 turn tech (4 after I ended turn). Mining and Fishing are 2 turn techs right now and I can sustain a 50% research rate (with the 2 markets finished last turn).

2 more turns until I can found the hunting city!

I'm still scared about a possible DaveV attack... Need hawks soon... And PoL too. It's nice that the capital has some decent production potential, because the other cities are surely lacking.

I'd be very glad to actually found the FoL religion, albeit I don't think that's likely. Either way, it's good. If I could found it, I'd get 2 cities with it from the start and a good boost in culture, but that are definetely things I can do without.