[SPOILERS] FFH II PBEM I Lurker Discussion Thread- No Players Allowed!

[WarriorKnight]

I also can't agree with the decision to sacrifice the Immortal promotion just to teleport her back to the capital. She could always harass the back lines during the attack and have the promotion as a fallback.

Brigit doesn't have the Immortal promotion but rather true Immortality. Therefore she'll only die if she's killed twice in one turn.

[Azoth]

To quote the FFH Manual:

"There are two types of Immortality in Fall from Heaven. There is a 'second Chance' version, which is implemented via the Promotion: Immortal. Then there is true Immortality, which shows no Promotion, but simply happens. The Promotion can be gained in various ways. Some units start with it, like Hyborem, other units can acquire it, like Losha Valas, but absolutely any Living unit can wind up with it through the Ritual Blood of the Pheonix. Typically, only the Immortal units (and their unique counterparts) however will have true immortality bestowed upon them."

True immortals will respawn in the capital whenever they are killed, but only once per turn. Brigit may be one of them, in which case there's no downside to disbanding her.

It'll be very interesting to see how it all plays out. Selrahc could simply close his borders, after some prompting from Pocketbeetle, but that might only paint a bigger target on his back. He might not want to risk a confrontation, especially if Bob can reroute through dwarven territory. On the other hand, Selrahc or Pocketbeetle might be tempted to ambush Dracula and Brigit in the northern wastelands, to put that threat to rest. (If so, the disband-and-respawn maneouver might catch them by surprise.) And last time I checked, there were 6-7 Brigits up there, much like the goblin forts and their nest of archers. What happens then?

Edit: crossposted with Warrior Knight

[Irgy]

Well I learned something new anyway, that deleting a unit triggers the immortal promotion, rather than just getting rid of it completely.

They'd have to ambush Brigit in the Calabim capital not the northern wastes to get rid of her though by the way.

Didn't know about this "same turn" thing either but it makes sense, otherwise the capital would be impossible to take with a respawning unit in it all the time. What consititutes "the same turn" anyway? That bit doesn't seem to be in the manual. Is it one game turn as in e.g. Turn107? Or one player's turn? Or is it just a matter of dying while already in the capital?

[WarriorKnight]

And last time I checked, there were 6-7 Brigits up there, much like the goblin forts and their nest of archers. What happens then?

The players agreed that whoever free's Brigit only keeps one and deletes the rest of them.

Didn't know about this "same turn" thing either but it makes sense, otherwise the capital would be impossible to take with a respawning unit in it all the time. What consititutes "the same turn" anyway? That bit doesn't seem to be in the manual. Is it one game turn as in e.g. Turn107? Or one player's turn? Or is it just a matter of dying while already in the capital?

I'd assume that 'twice in the same turn' in PBEM means twice before the player plays again. So, as an example, if Bob gets Brigit and Selrahc kills her once, pb could permanently kill her in his turn before Bob plays again.

Of course, Bob needs to get her first, and if he's assuming that pb/Selrahc will simply let him claim a free immortal hero, then he's sadly mistaken.

[Azoth]

Well I learned something new anyway, that deleting a unit triggers the immortal promotion, rather than just getting rid of it completely.

I should say I assume that's how it works. I've never thought to try it personally.

They'd have to ambush Brigit in the Calabim capital not the northern wastes to get rid of her though by the way.

Of course. But they could kill Dracula when he's far from home, without hope of support, and thus waste all the happiness and sacrificed population that was spent leveling him.

Didn't know about this "same turn" thing either but it makes sense, otherwise the capital would be impossible to take with a respawning unit in it all the time. What consititutes "the same turn" anyway? That bit doesn't seem to be in the manual. Is it one game turn as in e.g. Turn107? Or one player's turn? Or is it just a matter of dying while already in the capital?

I'd assume that 'twice in the same turn' in PBEM means twice before the player plays again.

Not quite. The respawning happens immediately. If it is Selrahc's turn, and he kills Brigit anywhere on the map, she respawns in Prespur at once, before any other Illian unit can move or attack. After respawning, Brigit is vulnerable for the remainder of Selrahc's turn, as well as the turns of every other player after him, including Bob. Only after the last player in the turn order completes his turn and the barbarians finish their moves, does Brigit regain immortality.

Edit:

The players agreed that whoever free's Brigit only keeps one and deletes the rest of them.

Then aren't the players forgetting something? If Brigit is a true immortal, then she cannot be simply deleted. All seven of her would respawn! It might call for outside intervention from Worldbuilder, however that might be arranged.

[NobleHelium]

Are we sure Brigit is truly immortal? I'm pretty sure she's killable after the first death...after she dies once she loses the "respawns in the capital if killed" part of the tooltip when you hover over her.

And why are there 6-7 Brigits?

[Irgy]

Not quite. The respawning happens immediately. If it is Selrahc's turn, and he kills Brigit anywhere on the map, she respawns in Prespur at once, before any other Illian unit can move or attack. After respawning, Brigit is vulnerable for the remainder of Selrahc's turn, as well as the turns of every other player after him, including Bob. Only after the last player in the turn order completes his turn and the barbarians finish their moves, does Brigit regain immortality.

By all of which you effectively mean one turn as in e.g. T234 right?

Then aren't the players forgetting something? If Brigit is a true immortal, then she cannot be simply deleted. All seven of her would respawn! It might call for outside intervention from Worldbuilder, however that might be arranged.

Or just delete them twice each.

Are we sure Brigit is truly immortal? I'm pretty sure she's killable after the first death...after she dies once she loses the "respawns in the capital if killed" part of the tooltip when you hover over her.

But, did you only ever test that on the same turn she died? Because she does lose it for a turn apparently.

[NobleHelium]

I'm pretty sure she didn't get that back afterwards. Could be wrong though.

[Square Leg]

Question for the peanut gallery:

I can't remember the turn order but if Bob goes after PB and see the AC at 30 and blight impending for the next turn, he could presumably pop 7 Pines and avert it right?

The fact that the AC reached 30 temporarily will not trigger blight. It is only if the turn ends with it on 30+ is what I am trying to say I guess...

[Mardoc]

Question for the peanut gallery:

I can't remember the turn order but if Bob goes after PB and see the AC at 30 and blight impending for the next turn, he could presumably pop 7 Pines and avert it right?

The fact that the AC reached 30 temporarily will not trigger blight. It is only if the turn ends with it on 30+ is what I am trying to say I guess...

It does appear that Bob is after PB, from reading their set-up thread, and I believe you're right on the mechanics - but I also believe Bob wouldn't do that. From his latest posts, he believes blight will hurt PB worse than it hurts him, and he's confident in his power so he wouldn't want the peace.