[Spoiler] Fintourist loses his multiplayer virginity

[Fintourist]

Grassland copper is 2/4 (sorry for not having tile yields on). 2/5 would be too good to be true at this stage and that's why your calculations are a bit off And yes, wasting a worker turn here and chopping the forest after the sugar and copper are improved is here beneficial (workers can put cottage turns into tile NW of the city while moving around).

At least for me this was an interesting study, how to balance two things that are considered right moves when the new city is founded: 1. working the tile with highest food value and 2. getting granary asap.

Btw, I also considered as the goal the turn when city reaches size 4 (and of course its cumulative hammer output).

[Fintourist]

Turn 63

Main domestic happenings in the nutshell:

• I'm finally working the gold tile as CC reached size 3
  
• CC also finished a work boat so that I can connect clams when the borders pop in 2 turns
  
• Capital grew to size 5. I think I will grow it to size 7 and then let it build a new settler
  
• RG will produce a one more warrior (6th). I will definitely find use for it as a military police for safer cities and capitol when I switch to HR. Next I think I will start putting hammers into Library in RG.
  
• And the main thing: I decided to go Currency before Calendar. It will be a close case whether I'll need to stagnate the growth in the capital. Most likely for a turn or two, but I believe that the benefits from Currency will outweight that loss.
  

Here is the same thing in a screenshot format:



Btw, I tested quickly my planned tech path in the sandbox. I managed to start my first GA at ~T92 and switched to bureucracy and built the academy ~T99. I definitely underestimated the growth potential of my economy. However, faster horizontal expansion (maintenance costs) and military threats can slow down my plans, but technically I believe that my plan is feasible.

C&D News:
I believe Viqsi built a second axe. My Scout saw Sareln's settler approaching the copper site. In fact, I believe Viqsi has an opportunity to completely ruin Sareln's game if she wants and plays things correctly. I'll write more about that. Hydra did some serious whipping in his cities (3pop). I wonder what he built.

[Old Harry]

So you're not going for MOM?

[Fintourist]

Yeah, MoM.. It would be an awesome wonder, no doubt about it. I have in fact found myself thinking about it quite often. I would hate to end up looking an opponent enjoying 48 turns of Golden Age (with Taj), while I only get 24 turns with 3 GAs. But... I feel that I simply cannot afford the investment at this stage.

I can get 3 chops and ~10 base hammers per turn in a city(e.g. My latest city at size 4). MoM costs 450 hammers so that would mean 3 chops + 36 turns of production. That is quite a significant investment and there exists of course a relevant chance that I lose the race.

This map, like many other water-heavy maps is quite low (not terribly low) on production before the era of workshops. I feel that I need to put my scarce hammers into settlers, workers, basic infra and military. Having those hammers unused in the box for those 35-40 turns would definitely affect the speed of my expansion.

Of course, if I find marble somewhere..

Regarding wonders overall, I doubt that I will build that many. I hope that Hydra, Viqsi and Azza take a shot and build at least a wonder or two. It would not be nice if Sareln can pick all the half-priced goodies without sacrifices.

[Fintourist]

How Viqsi could screw Sareln's start

If I have done my C&D correctly Viqsi is the only player with metal units. In fact it is possible that she has two 3EXP Axes. Of course the axes are not that valuable when nobody else has any kind of military, unless one uses them.

I feel that Viqsi could have here a great chance to take Sareln out. Normally early wars do not make any kind of sense with distances like in this map, but in this case Viqsi could really get rewarded for the aggression. The Great Lighthouse is a price that justifies sending in couple of axes.

Why could an opportunistic attack work here?
Based on my C&D, Sareln's military consists of 4 warriors. Sareln has not researched Hunting, Archery or IW. Viqsi has a warrior scouting inside Sareln's area -> she knows that Sareln does not have copper hooked up and she knows where it is located.

If Viqsi sends a galley with 2 axes she has an excellent chance of disconnecting copper and razing Sareln's soon to be founded 3rd city. After that she can start pillaging Sareln's core area and eventually capture both Sareln's core cities with maybe two additional axes. Sareln can react and tech Archery, and thus delay capturing his core cities, but he can't build anything that has any kind of odds against promoted Axes and stop pillaging.

Practicalities



Viqsi's 3rd city is in the fog at the bottom of the picture. It should be at size 3 if I have done C&D correctly. If Viqsi has planned an attack she could have a galley already ready or at least some hammers in the box. In any case that Galley could be whipped at latest when the city reaches size 4. When the galley is out there, Viqsi needs only 5 turns to reach copper tile. Depending on Sareln's city placement, Viqsi's galley could even reach the city in 4 turns.

Sareln will settle the city quite likely in two turns on T65. He has two workers joining the settler, which means that copper will be mined and roaded earliest at T68. It is also quite possible that Sareln improves a food resource first and copper will not be hooked up before T70/71.

If Viqsi has planned an attack and gets the galley going in 2 turns, she will definitely cause great problems for Sareln. It is quite unlikely that he could hold his new city. If there would be a ready galley already, it could get brutal.

Conclusion
Most likely Viqsi has simply built those axes to secure her own defence and Sareln gets to settle in peace... I don't know. If I were Viqsi with two Axes and had a neighbour without metal and Archery, but with an extremely powerful wonder.. I might be tempted to do something fun and go for it.

[AutomatedTeller]

that's assuming the viqsi has sailing, of course, and a galley. Do you know if she does, one way or another?

that said, I agree with your analysis.

[Fintourist]

Viqsi has Sailing, everyone has. (I was able to confirm it from know-tech bonuses that I received when I teched Sailing couple turns ago).

I believe that Viqsi does not have a galley. That's at least the way I have interpreted her power increases. In the most aggressive scenario, she completes the galley next turn (EOT64) with a whip or a chop and lands the units on T68. (giving Sareln probably max a turn time to dry-whip axes in his core) However, I would not bet my money on an attack and would be very surprised to see any aggression.

Well, I cross my fingers..

[Old Harry]

Of course, if I find marble somewhere..

It must be on an island!

I was going to suggest worker whips and overflow, but they aren't going to help a huge amount.

[Fintourist]

Of course, if I find marble somewhere..

It must be on an island!

I was going to suggest worker whips and overflow, but they aren't going to help a huge amount.

Yeah, let's go searching marble! In fact, in my current plan CC produces next two additional work boats that both will be used for scouting, (at least to some extent).

And yes, with overflow tactics, I might be able to get some additional hammers towards MoM. Unfortunately I don't really have a site that has good food surplus, production potential and unchopped forests.. Building that wonder would be a long grind regardless of the approach.

[Fintourist]

Turns 64 & 65

Okay, that thing called real life has forced me to play my last turns quickly, but let's catch up and do a proper report.

Domestically everything is going peacefully. I'm simply growing my cities and improving tiles:



Everything is looking pretty okay there. At the end of the turn I tied Viqsi in population points (14). Azza, Sareln & Hydra have currently 10, 9 and 8 points respectively. The difference is somewhat explained by different whipping cycles.

In other news, Sareln offered Open borders and I in fact accepted. That deal means simply +4 commerce per turn for both civs because Sareln settled 2 new cities on T65. I will close borders as soon as I can get routes with someone else or if he gets ahead in the city count. The Work Boat that finished this turn will head out north and hopefully enable new trading routes..

Open borders enabled my scout to enter Sareln's borders:



I mean what?? How is it possible that Sareln has riverside plains gold next to his capital. A 0/3/8 tile! That tile is simply super powerful and perfecly located. I hope that I have compensation for that somewhere... My gold tile next to CC is 0/2/8 with financial bonus. EDIT: Well, I kind of expected that something like that must be there. I remember speculating a while back that Sareln's high early game commerce can only be explained with a tile like that..

According to my estimations me and Sareln are currently basically tied with the research power. I have more pop and already 3 financial riverside hamlets, but Sareln totally compensates it with that gold tile and GLH. I believe that he has currently 10 trade routes that net him 18 commerce. (4 trade routes with Viqsi & me). That is directly a loss of 10 commerce for me and the difference will only get bigger as his expansion continues. I need to find alternative trade routes and hopefully Viqsi will also close the borders with Sareln later. This is a kind of Prisoner's Dilemma type of case. If we both close borders now we only lose 6 commerce per turn. If I am the only one closing borders, I lose still with 10 commerce to Sareln and additionally with 4 commerce to Viqsi...

Viqsi's power increased by 8000 points. I assume Archery+warrior, but I hope that those points represent something that causes pain to someone (but not me)..