Looks like Joey/Brick took Mali - Mining/Wheel is max beakers I think. Skirmishers are weaker than BtS but still quite good for defending tenuous city plants, and the Mint is a buff to a building you want almost everywhere. If they picked Mining/Wheel I'd say they only have two types of food at their start, or they plan to ignore their seafood for the first couple dozen turns.
So only Jowy and Haram start with Mysticism, not that it doesn't make going for religious techs risky. Still quite a lot of civs with Fishing, either people figured you can just tech Hunting/Ag or lots of people have coastal starts. Four people with Financial could point to coast, or people just wanting to demo the Wharf on principle. We can find out for sure by checking demos each turn if we want to.
Tsargon definitely got the best of the snakepick, but Borsche's Org Vikings might be really powerful depending on how the map is laid out. Scipio might be great if there's lots of food but few luxuries, or mediocre if there's lots of happiness to go around.
So I did a modified version of 2b, call it 2c: Plan #2c - Bronze Working, build Worker from T20 with two chops:
T20: Warrior 1 completes, begin Worker 2; Worker 1 moves 1N and puts one turn into Farm 1E of London
T21: Worker 1 moves to forested riverside PH 1S of London
T22: BW complete, tech Wheel; Worker chops riverside PH Forest
T24: Worker 1 finishes chop, Worker 2 complete, begin Settler; Worker 2 moves forest 1E of wine
T25: Worker 1 mines, Worker 2 chops
T26: W1 2/4 mine, Worker 2 2/3 chop
T27: W1 3/4 mine, Worker 2 chops; Wheel complete, tech Pottery;
T28: W1 finishes mine, Worker 2 ?, Settler completes:
London: Size 3, 2/26f, 13h overflow, 3h invested in a Warrior
Improvements: Wheat Farm, Fish nets, Ivory Camp, river PH Mine
Techs: Agri,Hunting,Bronze Working,Wheel; Pottery 5t away (T33)
Chops 2 forests, settler is done 1T earlier
There's a worker forward that can start roading 1E of the wines in case we go that way. BW plan does let us know where the Important strategic resource is before the first settler is complete. If there is food/copper in that direction, we could also settle a city to split off the ivory and have that city go worker first, getting the worker bonus there, while the capital maintains enough improved tiles.
edit: not saying this is the best plan, but another alternative.
(September 29th, 2015, 19:13)Fenn Wrote: Looks like Joey/Brick took Mali - Mining/Wheel is max beakers I think. Skirmishers are weaker than BtS but still quite good for defending tenuous city plants, and the Mint is a buff to a building you want almost everywhere. If they picked Mining/Wheel I'd say they only have two types of food at their start, or they plan to ignore their seafood for the first couple dozen turns.
Will update. Much happier to see Mali, even though it is a good civ. Mining is 2nd most beakers at 50 base. Wheel and Myst are 60 base each (74 modified).
Quote:So only Jowy and Haram start with Mysticism, not that it doesn't make going for religious techs risky. Still quite a lot of civs with Fishing, either people figured you can just tech Hunting/Ag or lots of people have coastal starts. Four people with Financial could point to coast, or people just wanting to demo the Wharf on principle. We can find out for sure by checking demos each turn if we want to.
I'm guessing that most people made the same conclusion with the ease of teching hunting/ag and have coastal starts. On the tech front, we have some options once we finish pottery. I guess we will likely be teching AH, but who knows if we need myst for monuments, like you said earlier in the thread.
Quote:Tsargon definitely got the best of the snakepick, but Borsche's Org Vikings might be really powerful depending on how the map is laid out. Scipio might be great if there's lots of food but few luxuries, or mediocre if there's lots of happiness to go around.
(September 29th, 2015, 22:33)wetbandit Wrote: So I did a modified version of 2b, call it 2c: Plan #2c - Bronze Working, build Worker from T20 with two chops:
It's a good plan; it's probably more important to have two Workers rather than two Warriors in the first 25 turns, since we can send Warrior 1 off to the second city, and 2t a second one in London whenever we need one. Having four improved tiles helps as well. We need to consider if getting a Settler out a couple turns early is worth 1.5 forests, though if we take BW first it's not like Worker 1 as anything else to do but chop. And chops will be helpful for getting Granaries up, they'll be a bit expensive for us.
Ideally we can settle our first couple cities with first ring food and/or sharing improved tiles with London, bu we'll have to scout the map before we can make concrete plans. Speaking of plans we should plan our naming scheme.
(September 29th, 2015, 22:33)wetbandit Wrote: So I did a modified version of 2b, call it 2c: Plan #2c - Bronze Working, build Worker from T20 with two chops:
It's a good plan; it's probably more important to have two Workers rather than two Warriors in the first 25 turns, since we can send Warrior 1 off to the second city, and 2t a second one in London whenever we need one. Having four improved tiles helps as well. We need to consider if getting a Settler out a couple turns early is worth 1.5 forests, though if we take BW first it's not like Worker 1 as anything else to do but chop. And chops will be helpful for getting Granaries up, they'll be a bit expensive for us.
Ideally we can settle our first couple cities with first ring food and/or sharing improved tiles with London, bu we'll have to scout the map before we can make concrete plans. Speaking of plans we should plan our naming scheme.
It's A plan, we'll see if it makes sense. For the record, I fiddled around with a hunting first and improve the camp first option. It's not competitive and loses so many worker turns that I don't think it makes sense.
And finally on t6, if we change the worked tile to the unimproved wheat, we can get hunting and agri by T9, enabling the worker to improve the wheat first turn and get the extra scout moves 4 turns earlier. I only ran this through option 2c and we get
compared to agri-hunt
T28: W1 finishes mine, Worker 2 ?, Settler completes:
London: Size 3, 2/26f, 13h overflow, 3h invested in a Warrior
Improvements: Wheat Farm, Fish nets, Ivory Camp, river PH Mine
Techs: Agri,Hunting,Bronze Working,Wheel; Pottery 5t away (T33) (21/105)
Chops 2 forests, settler is done 1T earlier (compared to 2b)
We only lose 1h to do this, but can gain that back if we dump the OF into a worker, thanks to PRO bonus. We essentially "gain" the 3h invested into the warrior by putting it into a more snowball-y build like a worker. Without doing the swap this way, the worker at that point is 4 turns, so this gives us a pretty strong option to get a third worker online on T31.
T0: settle, work ivory
T4: hunting finishes, pick agri
T6: switch to wheat
T9: agri finishes, pick BW, worker 1 ready, moves to wheat -> farms, start WB on ivory
T13: worker finishes farm, switch to farm (grow in 4, WB in 2)
T14: worker moves/1t farm somewhere
T15: worker moves to ivory, WB finishes ->net fish
T16: worker camps; grow to 2 work farm+fish
T19: worker finishes camp
T20: grow to 3, worker moves/farms, warrior complete, start worker 2
Rest of 2c/2b
(September 29th, 2015, 23:21)Fenn Wrote: Ideally we can settle our first couple cities with first ring food and/or sharing improved tiles with London, bu we'll have to scout the map before we can make concrete plans. Speaking of plans we should plan our naming scheme.
(September 30th, 2015, 00:24)wetbandit Wrote: And finally on t6, if we change the worked tile to the unimproved wheat, we can get hunting and agri by T9, enabling the worker to improve the wheat first turn and get the extra scout moves 4 turns earlier.
Ooh, nice catch; I'll run that through the Pottery plans and see if anything breaks. We can hold off on deciding our first tech for four turns anyway so there's no rush. On 2c, I'd agree that the extra overflow is worth more than having 1h more in a Warrior; we can build those whenever.
The login password is justice. I made some guesses about some ambiguous tiles out in the fog and moved the scout 1S; my first thought is to explore along the south and southeast, then loop around to the northwest to try and find spots that could share the Wheat, but you might have other ideas. I haven't selected a tech yet.
Fonts is actually an excellent theme; I did it in a duel once and it'll never ever run out. The city names actually look like city names, too, although I know that doesn't matter as much for Mr. Wet "loldonkuments" Bandit.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.
(September 30th, 2015, 12:53)Commodore Wrote: Fonts is actually an excellent theme; I did it in a duel once and it'll never ever run out. The city names actually look like city names, too, although I know that doesn't matter as much for Mr. Wet "loldonkuments" Bandit.
You were able to easily rectify that problem after you took the city!
I'm fine with fonts. It will remind me of the trophy store owners who regaled me once upon a time, while waiting for said trophy, that they liked to guess the fonts of billboards they passed on their roadtrips. My hobbies are cool, like playing 10 year old computer games, but I like to cast judgment on others.
But salad...enables...easy Simpsons jokes!
Ok with either theme.
I agree with the scouting plan. Carving a wide swath so that we can see copper when BW comes in is very important. We've got a long way to go before that, so we can head down a ways along this coastline. 1SE next turn onto the PH and then further along that way. First border pop is going to uncover a whole lot of tiles to the north.
Interesting that there is another land mass very close, makes early sailing attractive for an overseas route early.
