[Mjmd #52 no players] Working on the Homestead

[Mjmd]

Tick that mistake counter up. Realized I shouldn't' have teched last turn as I had enough overflow for mediation. I should have teched this turn for the 20% bonus beakers. Sigh.

AT took a city off of Charriu; scout is going to check out the action. I wonder if I go attack one of the two main border cities instead of the south one. South one would auto raze and it is just a waste of resources for him right now. I can also wait until Jowy jumps in for some more forces to be drawn away first.

[Mjmd]

Ignore the tech; I just wanted to put overflow into a tech with only 1 prereq.

What to do what to do. AT attacking Charriu makes more sense now that i know that lake forms a natural choke between him and Jowy over there. Assuming Jowy will invade from south. To note I think AT has his entire non garrison force over here so if Mr C attacked his other flank he would be in trouble.



For most efficient use of time I kind of have to decide what I'm doing this next turn. Am I waiting to hit Charriu? Do I want to go try to backstab Pin? Probably the last opportunity and he lost a bit at least, but I don't have much either..... Whip some horse archers everywhere that can and try to do a speed run through old Gira territory? If this was diplo and I could get Mr C to also attack him? I guess I could send Mr C a iron for iron trade with demand to attack Pin and see if he sends back an iron for iron. Easier pickings would be Charriu. Mind literally 7-8 of my cities are still in infancy and can't contribute much. Still a ways from knights. I just dont think SD is lasting that long.

I'm probably going to wait and hit Charriu; easier to do, higher chance of success and otherwise the cities will go to AT & Jowy. I'll wait until Jowy invades. I also don't want to whip my cities too much at this point as it would slow down knights.

Last chance to stop Pin does sound tempting though....... Maybe I'll do the trade to Mr C and see what he says?

[El Grillo]

I logged in to take a look, got the start-of-turn notifications so I put Evaporator on Wealth as a placeholder for you.

I think hitting Charriu is definitely a good idea, but on the other hand your road network on the front isn't great, and your Fast Workers are way out of position to support an attack. For example, you could hide staging troops 1S of Cornbread because of the hill and build roads to put a stack of 1-movers adjacent to FlyingBarbarian the turn you declare war. I also think that that would be a good target, since it lets AT keep Charriu occupied further north at ExploringFauns. Perhaps you could bring over one of the FWs from Few Trees and make the attack in 5-6 turns? That would let you whip out 5 more units in time and move in with ~15 units, which I think is the minimum needed to decisively take a few cities in the southwest and more importantly convince AT to play nice and let you keep them.

I don't think trying to pivot to hit Pindicator makes nearly as much sense from this position, your forces are way out of position for it and there are no roads in that direction, so pindicator's sentries would see any attack coming several turns out before you could threaten a city. Furthermore, you have no guarantee of Mr Cairo actually playing along and committing enough forces to get an edge over pindicator, whereas AT is already actively at war with Charriu, and I could see Jowy piling on.

Otherwise, things look alright. Cities need time to grow but you definitely have enough land to be competitive, and an absolute ton of Forests to chop in the west. If you can grab a few cities off of Charriu soon and then make it safely to Guilds, you're definitely a contender for a strong finish. Have you thought about chopping some Forests into Mausoleum fail-gold once you have the tundra Marble hooked up? It's too late to actually build the wonder, but the conversion rate is still better than building Wealth and presumably someone will build it in time for you to use the gold en route through Machinery, Monarchy, Feudalism, and Guilds.

[Mjmd]

Thanks for taking a look.

SD entered a golden age, so maybe he can hold a smidge longer.

I had planned on just hitting his city that is right next to my silver so I hadn't left any workers in the area especially as they are very much needed in the west. FlyingBarbarian is obviously a city I would like as well. Exploring Fauns will also be interesting who gets. BTW going to lose that floodplain farm to culture if one of those cities doesn't go down. I think Jowy is 100% going to jump in this war. Which side is the question. I started a worker in cornbread to whip. It can start roads and I can always chop those 3 forests in the middle while waiting for whatever happens. Keep building cats and horse archers. Protective archers are a pain on hills...

Pins sentry axe just showed up on the Gira land bridge, but your right can't count on Mr C. If Jowy attacks AT Mr C should 100% jump in against him. I'm kind of wondering if he will anyways.

I think there is a non 0 chance I get mausoleum still........ Jowy is only one who has had ability to build for a long time, but he got a bunch of jungle to chop vs my million forests. He is also going up in power without whipping. But yes will be chopping the 3 grassland river forests into it at the very least and then prechop some others depending on timing.

Other news of note is I got a natural spread of Hinduism in Buckets! Why am I excited? Well I needed a missionary pump somewhere and no other city really fit the bill, but a fishing village I can whip forever. Perfect.

[Mjmd]

Meant to take some screen shots and then accidentally ended turn. I'm so used to not being last to play....... Anyways didn't play next turn so I can stay in 2nd half of turn split with AT and now as predicted Jowy vs Charriu as well. I thought there was a non 0 chance Jowy stabs AT just to avoid Charrius insanely good defenders when they are on hills anyways.

Charriu has left a single archer in the southern city. It hasn't grown to size 2 yet though and I'm wondering if he is purposefully not growing........; more likely it is working beaver so just slow. It would cost me quite a few cats to take ExploringFauns if I wanted to go that direction. Waiting on Mr Cs army to move his stack as I don't want him coming at the #1 player in cities. He has a chariot staring at ATs army. He can read power graphs I'm assuming and knows that is all AT has. Do I stab AT instead if Mr C attacks him? All the questions. Just waiting atm and building power.

-Jowy keeps wanting a happy trade, which I don't need atm. I might do one with AT as he is finally improving his calendar resources. Prob not, only cities that big have markets / building.
-SD cancelled open borders and then demanded open borders borders for 100g....... so that scout is stuck for now as I never reopened borders with Pin.
- Pin is about to place a city on Gira land bridge I think as a border city.
-I turned on tech. Actually had monarchy in 1 turn before I did two 2 pop whips for workers. But thats fine as monarchy with two prereqs will net me those delicious bonus beakers. I'm assuming someone else researched monarchy recently, so will put the overflow into machinery again assuming someone else is going to Fuedalism (I suspect Charriu).

I'm number 1 in GNP . Now mind I basically have 4 cities carrying my research atm. Short term goal is to cottage the hell out of the river in the west. I think I have 3-4 cottages right now over there. I did a count a few turns back and I have another 15? mainly grassland river tiles to cottage and libraries to chop out over there. I do think I will delay that iron city that would steal the dry rice as I don't have the workers for it and city maintenance is a real thing and that city wouldn't payback for a while. I do want to get down in 10-15 turns probably; sometime before golden age. I can just hear Naufragar in PB88 saying "I went to war for worst cities". But that is where I am at while workers try to improve the river, 2 new western cities, and chop out a wonder.

Other thing I'm debating about is if I want to do a 4 pop whip for a forge in Pork Chops or let it grow for a while and do a 3 pop whip much later (as a reminder it has whopping 2 production so that is 10 turns from now for an organized religion 3 pop whip). Whipping the forge there would speed up my golden age time line as I could work a 3rd specialist. However, I might need those 25 (ish) turns to fully develop the cities in the west anyways to fully take advantage of it.

[Mjmd]

8 grassland river tiles and 7 plains river tiles to improve. Also I only have 5 (edit from 6) libraries empire wide atm. Sooo room to grow is what I'm saying. Also, only 20 turns until golden age, so no point 4 pop whipping the forge as I would have to not work some insane floodplain tiles to accelerate and I have a lot of territory to improve before then.

Demos:

F11 sorted by science. Shrine is very much helping a TON btw. I'm gaining 88gpt at 0% and shrine is hard core carrying. Would love courthouses, but no time for dicking around (although I want to SOOOO BAD) soo many forests to chop into them. Obviously end of golden age I will be switching from organized so would love to chop some courthouses out before then. If Pin wasn't such a risk for a runaway I would 100% be doing that.

My 5th best science city does not have a library..... You can tell I'm not in full military mode; nor do I think I should be atm. Also, you can tell all those new cities. I'm looking to defend vs Mr C (stack still hasn't moved, not that it is massive, but 4 elephants, 4 cats, and a few other junk; enough I need my stack to defend if he came down) and maybe attacks of opportunity again Charriu. Tech to Knights, go try to knock Pin down a peg. Somewhat awkward easiest attack path is up into Pins core as that is territory Mr C would probably like if he agrees to go in with me. Although again, he could go after AT right now with almost no risk at least for a couple free border cities, so doubt he will stick his neck out to attack Pin in 28 turns.

[Mjmd]

Turn 130 Report

Jowy took another city off of Charriu. Speaking of his annoying city took my silver!!!! I dicked around too long and wasn't paying attention to culture and now I have a city that is unhappy which I haven't seen in a while. Greed to see it grow to size 2 I guess. So now what. Mr C is still sitting near his cap with his growing army. I just want to tell him to go attack AT already!!!! He did just tie me in cities. I did move my army a little more SE, but I don't think I go in yet........ Made some decisions this turn that make moving my minuscule army out of position less attractive.  I also think I want Charriu to slow Jowy down.

Pin got a great scientist this turn from Old Gira cap assuming he will be going into a golden age. He did retreat the stack of his I could see from SD territory this turn not injured so just felt like poking in and incurring extra cost. I should have counted, but like 10+ spears, 1 elephant, and 1 or 2 something else. I mainly just remember the large amount of spears. SD let me have open borders again. He must have done the same demand of Mr C as his warrior got kicked to where my scout was last turn. SD actually left himself with no open borders for at least 1 turn, which is odd as the holder of the GLH. No one is giving you 100g!!!! Especially me!!!! Passive trade income to prop you up vs Pin sure, but not from my bank.

Empire overview. You guys know there is seafood south, so I cut those off to get a normal screenshot.



Can you tell I decided to build some more forges finally? Here is my noob logic. I want to let cities grow before this golden age so I have about 1 more rd of large 2-3 pop whips and then maybe some 1 pop whips (horse archers to hold in ques prob) before then. So I want to do the big rd of 2-3 pop whips on buildings since I'm still in organized. Western cities it was always the plan to get forges in the 2 far west in addition to Evaporator, but decided to do one in Few Trees now that I know it has iron plus it still has a lot of forest chops that will be boosted. I would love to do one in Time, but Hinduism hasn't spread yet, so will wait. I starred at the capital for a solid 5 minutes debating if it was getting a forge. It does have the cow pretty much full time now and usually is working 1 of the plains hills. Forges are obviously a long term play, but again kind of where I am atm I think and makes more sense to do now while I'm in organized.

Random other.
-Moved my galley guarding workboat 1 turn early, but I don't think Mr C is going to declare war just to snipe a boat, but there wasn't a need. I'm going to be ferrying an archer and axe over to the island just to make Mr C commit if he wants to take.
-If he does snipe I will be sad as I'm very excited for Mixed Drinks to pop borders so I can do some food swaps. Sap will end up with 2 food resources and quickly grow into its grassland river tiles. 
-Most of my workers are going to be swarming that area to get it up and running and chopping out Mausoleum. First Hindu missionary from Buckets will go to Sap. I actually switched Sap back to a cat that was 1 turn from completion. Think with all my other infrastructure builds want that slight power bump! Plus again just more value from waiting on working on buildings until it gets Hinduism. I was going to wait for it to get a barracks, but eh.
-Yes this picture made me realize Evaporator was working a grassland forest instead of a hamlet and that has now been switched.
-Yes I logged in 3 times just looking at these pictures to make minor changes. Goes to show I should probably report every turn, but just a lot of time. BTW 3am atm, but fell asleep at like 9pm originally was just my fault; can't blame the baby on this one.


Finance advisor since I've done a lot of the other screenshots recently and I'm sure other people have been posting graphs. Meant to show off my GNP spike that almost equaled Jowy in a golden age, but not logging in again! My main expense is city maintenance with #of cities being the majority. It is not a coincidence I took this picture starring at the C spot with the Iron. I just don't have the workers to make the city pay for itself in a reasonable time frame atm. I also have 2 other filler cities I am sandbagging for a while.

[Mjmd]

My 6th in the world military continues to dick around, but in my own territory. ATs stack disappeared into Charriu land and is now heading back. Wondering if it is going to ExploringFauns now. I was actually tempted to make a play for this city. Cairo did except fish for fish, but I'm not positive Pin isn't headed my way even though I would have some warning with distance between our borders. He doesn't have any active stacks at SDs border. He also settled border city on old Gira land bridge as well as an island putting him in city lead again. My main problem is the length of my empire. Engineering will be a priority once I get knights.

Stack dicking around and stuff. 

Chairru sent a lot of units out of Fauns when AT went SE. Where will AT move now?? Will Mr Cairo finally stab him in the back? What will noob Mjmd do and when? All good questions. I don't have easy decisions like Jowy. Jowy goes West, easy. SD knew he had to attack East, easy. Mr Cairo SHOULD conquer the top and go attack AT (not that I would say no to him attacking Pin) I'm #1 in land area by a ridiculous amount but tied for 2nd in cities...... and have 4 neighbors. If I go anywhere it has risks. Taking 3-4 cities off of Charriu as he is collapsing should be pretty simple, but then what? Go attack game leader so Jowy can backstab me. Attack Jowy once Charriu is gone and hope SD keeps holding vs Pin and Pin feels threatened enough to not stab me? Hope Mr Cairo doesn't dominate after taking down AT (if he ever gets moving). If he does by the way I'm definitely taking the city above Pork Chops for a buffer city, plus has some nice resources I'm lacking. I don't know if I can do what AT did and send my entire army one direction and hope my strong neighbor doesn't hit me.


Power and showing of Pins new cities. People give SD crap, but he is pretty impressive at building a functioning empire. A lot of his demos look pretty good considering he has been at war forever.

Random other:
-Mausoleum is 4-5 turns away depending on how many forests I want to throw into the evaporator. Assuming Jowy hasn't been slow building somewhere.
-I might** turn on tech in 2 turns once library in Low Budget is 1 pop whipped in. El Grillo how noob would it be to just save gold for the next 16 turns? Give me time to build 2-4 more libraries in the west and those cottages to develop. I could also then tech the entire length of the golden age. I'm not hitting knights before then anyways. I'm sure many other people are teching that way so might get some nice bonus beakers from known tech bonuses too. There really isn't anything that would be immediately useful, unless I wanted to build some longbows or courthouses (still tempting).

EDIT: PBSPY shows -28 in my score, was trying to do high 30s by whipping 3 cities at once, but maybe 2 is the most it will register as the same. Figured some people might mention and I shout sate Lurker curiosity. Testing to see if I can somehow hide a whole bunch of 1 pop whips later.

[El Grillo]

Saving gold for a while when you don't need the tech immediately, so you can tech with more modifiers later, seems reasonable to me. You always have the flexibility to spend earlier if something changes.

[Hitru]

Usually if you are surrounded with multiple civs you want to have at least one demilitarized border, which is usually achieved by finding a civ that has similar problem or has some other reason to stay in peace with you, then getting open borders with said civ and finally sending enough scouts in their land (they should do same for you) that you can be sure they don't have hidden army ready to attack you.

Being surrounded by other civs is harder position to be in as you don't have safe backlines at any point of game, but once navy comes online it evens the field little bit as coastal attacks take safe backlines away from everyone. On the bright side you can attack multiple civs which gives you lots of options, unlike say a civ that's on a peninsula bordering only biggest power in game.