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[Spoilers] Fintourist and Old Harry have nothing to see here

Hello spoiler thread.

Nothing interesting to say yet I'm afraid.

Links to controversial/interesting/worthy posts:

Old Harry's opponent analysis
Fintourist's opponent analysis
t4 - Fintourist doesn't want us to select a tech - with unfortunate consequences
t28 - Our initial dotmap (not bad if I say so myself)
t48 - Slowest opening ever
t92 - Our righteously just aggression against the infidel Suttree (Suttree war pt 1)
t98 - Suttree's first revenge attack which prompted this initial response and then this risky maneuver (Suttree war pt 1)
t106 - Alphabet brings the world together - Hi William! This was when we first offered Ichabod and Plako open borders - then nine turns later we offer them to you too - sorry we weren't quicker tongue
t110 - Map of the world - wahay! Pindicooter and Commodore are neighbours!
t110 - THH puts his finger on our biggest issue this game - we're surrounded!
t115 - Sutree's second attack - and the outcome (Suttree war pt 2)
t119 - How mostly_harmless fell and why he did it
t120 - A map of our continent - halfway through YuriMack's demolition of mostly_harmless
t123 - Our first casualty of the game dies as we liberate the city of Nibru Peterloo - and a post showing all our cities (spoilered at the bottom)
t129 - Old Harry makes random boasts about attacking YuriMack in a cynical bid to garner lurker comment
t131 - Analysis of the other team's starts (except m_h who I forgot rolleye)
t133 - Fintourist lays out our mid-game military options
t138 - Fintourist values Pacifism specialists vs golden age tiles
t143 - So who can we actually attack then? - tactical military possibilities (the answer is no-one frown )
t144 - How to value a shrine 101. With Prof Fintourist
t146 - Detailed golden age plans with the 4GP plan
t148 - Possible tech paths followed by Economics-race analysis and farewell from Fintourist
t150 - Great Person bulb/mission/GA strategy locked in - for better or worse...
t152 - Farewell Slowcheetah and a Golden Age city run-through
t154 - Plako attacks Dhal and we find out just how backward Suttree is
t159 - Hey! Why don't we attack Suttree? (Suttree war pt 3)
t161 - Hey! Why don't we attack Suttree in a different way? And please punch me if I ever claim to know anything about RBmod ever again (Suttree war pt 3)
t162 - This is all going well... (Suttree war pt 3)
t163 - And it all falls apart duh (Suttree war pt 3)
t164 - Old Harry's rant post for the game (Suttree war pt 3)
t166 - The phoney war turns real and we fight back (Mackoti war pt 1)
t167 - THH's plan for killing Mackoti (Mackoti war pt 1)
t169 - Casting off the jackboot of the cruel oppressor (Mackoti war pt 1)
t172 - Can we attack Mack's capital please? (Mackoti war pt 1)
t178 - This is when the doom set in (Mackoti war pt 1)
t180 - Mis-click controversy
t181 - Okay, we surrender - just don't hit the face! (Fifteen turns at war with Mack and we're only down one city!) (Mackoti war pt 1)
t184 - We got bored of peace and have a cunning plan for attacking Suttree (Suttree war pt 4)
t185 - The global tech situation
t186 - We attack Suttree live on Youtube (so much less interesting than you'd imagine), then we ponder on our next conquest (since this one has been such a triumph rolleye)
The story of Suttree the Monkey (the funniest bit of the whole thread)
t193 - More attack planning
t195 - Making friends and influencing people pt 2: Ichabod (Ichabod war pt 1)
t196 - War is over, long live future war!
t199 - Fintourist dreams of attacking dtay
t205 - Money, Money, Money, and will Ichabod attack us?
t209 - How useful are factories anyway?
t210 - Fintourist takes over and gives a mini state-of-play while Old Harry deals with nappies
t219 - Die boats die! (Ichabod war pt2)
t222 - Is Commodore our new best friend?
Krill wins everything...
t226 - This is a complicated world...
t227 - Maybe we should attack dtay?
t234 - Just a little bit more fighting with the Greeks (2metraninja took over from Ichabod war pt2 cont.)
t237 - Paranoia grows
t240 - Eh? Is Mack our new best friend?
t245 - The calm before the storm
t248 - The storm. Or one giant hailstone... Followed by our deluge
t249 - Crazy attack plans that won't work followed by some attacks that do work
t250 - Aaaaaaaaargh! 2MetraNinja you ba****rd! (IchaMetra war pt3) and the battle of Hamburg
t252 - We could raze five of Mackoti's cities this turn, but we choose not to out of the goodness of our heart and because we're already at war with two other players rolleye
t255 - Using 5 Commando Infantry to kill a size 6 city seems a bit of a waste, right?
t257 - Killing more Greek ships...
t258 - Two commandos short of keeping the Greek capital (see t255 duh)
t267 - We throw away a bunch of units just for a laugh (cry). As revenge can we burn a proper mainland dtay city?
Suttree made us a title sequence!


Password: tourist

Leaders: Random, 2 mulligans allowed.
Difficulty is Monarch
World size is Huge (hacked to be Large)
Temperate Climate
Low Sea Level
Speed is Normal
Vassals are off
TT is off
Huts are on
Events are off
barbs are on
EP: on
don't see starting screenshot before leaders

Ichabod/Wetbandit: Shaka of Greece
dtay: Alexander of Germany
Plako: Ragnar of Maya
retep: Sitting Bull of Khmer
Jowy/The Black Sword: Pacal of India
Slowcheetah: Ramesses of Mongolia
mostly_harmless: Qin Shi Huang of Sumeria
Azza: Joao of Dutch
Pindicator/scooter: Darius of Vikings
Nakor/CFCJesterfool: Wang Kon of Rome
Fintourist/Old Harry: Montezuma of Babylon
Commodore/Kurumi: Victoria of Portugal
Bacchus: Suryavarman of Carthage
WilliamLP: Isabella of Inca
Yuris: Mehmed of Ottomans
Serdoa Dhalphir: Mansa Musa of America
Bigger/Lewwyn: Gandhi of China
suttree: Huayna Capac of Spain

(July 18th, 2013, 11:40)Krill Wrote: Thanks unto Sevenspirits for editing the change log to be more understandable.

RB mod Versions

Change from city revolt mission is actually removed this patch; revolt civic and revolt religion missions also removed (as opposed to being available at Future tech)

Quote:Change log


Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank.

Expansive: +2 health per city. +35% production of Worker, Work Boat. +100% production of Market, Aqueduct, Grocer, Harbor.

Creative: +2 culture per city. +100% production of Theatre, Colloseum, Observatory.

Charismatic: +2 happiness. +1 happiness from Broadcast Tower. -25% XP needed for promotions.

Protective: Free CG1 promo for archery and gunpowder units. +100 production of Granary, Walls.

Imperialistic: +100% Great General emergence. +60% production of Settler. +100% production of Custom House

Aggressive: Free C1 promo for melee and gunpowder units. -25% city maintenance [Not shown in trait description. Bonus not shown in interface. Bonus is multiplicative with other maintenance modifiers. Final displayed city maintenance value is correct and includes this bonus.] +100% production of Barracks, Stable, Drydock.

Organized, Industrious, Philosophical, Spiritual: No change from BtS


America: UU is now Minuteman a Rifleman replacement with free Guerilla 1 and Woodsman 1. Mall is now a Grocer replacement that gives +1 happy from Deer, Sugar, Hit Musicals, Hit Movies, Hit Singles.

Arabia: Starts with Mysticism/Agriculture, instead of Mysticism/The Wheel. Madrassa cost decreased to 70 hammers from 90.

Byzantium: Cataphracts are 11 strength instead of 12, and are first strike immune (like normal knights).

Carthage: Cothon cost decreased to 80 hammers from 100 (now costs same as Harbor). Numidian Cavalry changed to a HA replacement with free C1.

Celts: Dun now gives G2, not G1.

France: Salon +1 free specialist, -1 free artist.

Germany: UU is now the Kanone, a Cannon that costs 80 hammers instead of 100.

Inca: Terraces now give +1 culture instead of +2. Quechua loses combat 1.

India: Starts with Mysticism/Wheel instead of Mysticism/Mining. The Fast Worker now has Mobility (-1 Terrain Movement Costs), but does not get an extra movement point compared to normal workers.

Japan: UB is now Pagoda, an Observatory replacement with +10% hammers.

Portugal: Feitoria now costs 120h, from 180h.

Rome: Praetorian changed to a Swordsman replacement with +1 strength. Forum increased to +35% GPP generation from +25%.

Russia: UB is now Research Institute, a university replacement with +1 scientist specialist.


Kublai Khan: Leader traits are now Charismatic, Creative, changed from Aggressive, Creative.


Police State: Now Medium Cost (down from High).

Vassalage: now provides free support for military units as well (meaning Pacifism is cheaper), and is Medium Upkeep.

Slavery: 30h for the 1st pop, 20h for the 2nd pop and subsequent pops. So, 30/50/70/90. On Quick speed, that's 20/33/46/60.

Serfdom: +75% Worker Speed, +1h for Watermills and Windmills.

Free Market: No longer provides -25% Corporate Costs. Now provides +25% Trade Route Yield.

Environmentalism: No longer provides +25% Corporate Costs, or +2 commerce to windmills. Provides +1 gold per specialist, +1c to farms and pastures, +2c to forest preserves, and Low upkeep. Swapped with Free Speech. Now available at Liberalism.

Free Speech: Now High Upkeep, swapped with Environmentalism. Now available at Scientific Method.

Wonders, Projects:

Rushmore: Now -50% WW, (from -25%).

Red Cross: 200h.

West Point: 550h, +5XP. Now requires a lvl 5 unit (17XP/13XP for Charismatic).

Great Lighthouse: Now +1 trade route instead of +2 trade routes, enabled at Masonry, but needs lighthouse and Sailing (no functional change in the tech requirements but makes F6 look less cluttered).

SoZ: no WW effect. Now +3XP, 200 hammers, no building prerequisites. No longer gets +100% production from Ivory.

The Internet: now a wonder. 2k cost, +15% beakers in every city, +2 scientist gpp, double production speed with copper. No longer a project.

Cristo Redentur: +100% SPI production, -50% Anarchy instead of -100%.

SDI: Removed from the game

Base unit changes:

Scouts: require no tech. Every player starts with a scout instead of a warrior.

War Elephants: now 7 str, +50% vs. Mounted units.

SAM Infantry: 75% interception chance (up form 40%)

Destroyer: now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)

Transport: now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)

Mobile Artillery: can now load guided Missiles and Tac Nukes (as Submarines and Missile Cruisers do). No longer require oil.

Gunships decreased to 3 moves.

ICBM: No longer unlimited range, but long enough so that they will out distance your army and navy easily, and they can be rebased. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built.
  • iCost: 450h
  • iAirCombatLimit: 75
  • iAirCombat: 160
  • iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
  • iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 12
  • iAirRange: 36

Tactical Nukes: Now S80 1shot units that can bombard units, cause collateral damage to 5 units, cannot be intercepted. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built. Full list of changes:
  • iCost: 200h
  • iAirCombatLimit: 75
  • iAirCombat: 80
  • iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
  • iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 5
  • iAirRange: 4

Guided Missiles: Can bombard units, tiles and cultural defence, cause collateral damage to 2 units, cannot be intercepted. Full list of changes (underline means original stat, for comparison):
  • iCost: 60h
  • iBombRate: 16
  • iAirCombatLimit: 75
  • iAirCombat: 40
  • iCollateralDamage: 100
  • iCollateralDamageLimit: 50%
  • iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 1
  • iAirRange: 4

Flanking: Flanking strength (used to calculate damage from flanking strikes) or all units reduced by 50%.


Barracks: increased cost to 60 hammers, +1 culture.

Jails: now -50% War Weariness.

Castles (and replacement UB): no longer decrease bombardment rate of catapults or trebuchets.


Known Tech Bonus changed to 25 (up from 30), enabled by Map Trading (so there is no Known Tech Bonus until you research Writing).The known tech bonus is multiplied by the number of techs that you have that enable map trading.

Hunting: enables pastures, cost increased by 50% from 40 to 60. No longer enables camps.

Animal Husbandry: enables camps. No longer enables pastures.

Archery: base tech cost decreased by two thirds, from 60 to 40.

Astronomy: requires Code of Laws as mandatory prerequisite in addition to Calendar and Optics. No longer requires Paper.

Alphabet no longer enables tech trading, allows Open Borders.

Writing enables Map trading, no longer enables OB.

Paper enables Map trading, Tech Trading. Requires Metal Casting as mandatory prerequisite. No longer requires Literature or Code of Laws.

Corporation enables Map Trading.

Scientific Method enables Map Trading.

Steam Power enables Map Trading.

Electricity enables Map Trading.

Renaissance era technology prices increased by a percentage of base BtS tech cost as follows:

  • Education: +25%
  • PP: +25%
  • Nationalism: +25%
  • Gunpowder: +25%
  • Astronomy: +25%
  • Economics: +50%
  • Liberalism: +50%
  • Replaceable Parts: +50%
  • Military Tradition: +50%
  • Constitution: +50%
  • Chemistry: +50%
  • Democracy: +75%
  • Rifling: +75%
  • Corporation: +75%
  • Military Science: +75%
  • Steel: +75%
  • Steam Power: +75%
  • Artillery: +100%
  • Assembly Line: +100%
  • Scientific Method: +100%
  • Railroad: +100%

Cost of all subsequent techs increased by 100%

All medieval and earlier techs are untradeable:

The untradeable techs are as follows: Fishing, The Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mysticism, Mining, Sailing, Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Archery, Meditation, Polytheism, Masonry, Horseback Riding, Priesthood, Monotheism, Bronze Working, Writing, Metal Casting, Iron Working, Aesthetics, Mathematics, Alphabet, Monarchy, Compass, Literature, Calendar, Construction, Currency, Machinery, Drama, Engineering, Code of Laws, Feudalism, Optics, Music, Philosophy, Civil Service, Theology, Divine Right, Paper, Guilds, Banking


Switch Civic, Switch Religion, City Revolt,Counter Espionage, and Destroy Production spy missions removed.

Costs of all active spy missions doubled.

Discounts to spy missions due to religious effects removed (owning holy city, religion present in city).

Spies now spawn with "Secretive", and cannot see tiles except the one they're standing on.

The No Espionage game option now works properly:
  • GSpy points are converted into Great Merchant points.
  • Espionage no longer gets converted into culture.
  • Cultural expansion now happens at normal values.
  • Spies cannot be built.
  • Graphs are always visible on contact.

Tile Changes:

Watermills: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Rep Parts.
Workshops: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Chemistry.
Mines: +1h at Rep Parts.
Whaling Boats: Enabled at Sailing, not Optics. Otherwise unchanged.

Game Mechanics:

The Draft: Rifles now cost 2 pop to draft. A city must now end a draft at size 6 instead of size 5 (So size 8 to draft a rifle, size 7 to draft a musket).

Corporations: Completely removed from the game.

Culture required to achieve legendary border pop on Quick Speed changed from 25000 to 33000


Coastal Blockade now has a range of 1 square around the blockader, instead of 3 squares.

AP Resolutions: Declare War (on a non-member), Force Peace (between two members), and
Assign City are no longer eligible resolution actions.

Fail-gold: You never get fail-gold if you also completed the wonder somewhere else (so no National Wonder fail-gold, or doubling up on a wonder to guarantee yourself a paycheck. The game still informs you that you received "0 gold" from your hammers).

Hut techs: Can only gain techs from the first three rows of the tech screen:

Fishing, Sailing, Wheel, Pottery, Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, Hunting, Archery, Mysticism, Masonry, Priesthood, Mining, Bronze Working, Writing.

Toroidal maps: Now return city maintenance as if the map were Cylindrical.[spoiler]

Included additional bug fixes:

[spoiler]Lib/Oracle multiple techs (warning, this is the most complex fix and it changes the save file format by adding a value for each player of whether they currently have an unused free tech award. The fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).

Trade route turn order bug.

Foreign trade route cities lost permanently when your city using those routes is destroyed (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).

Build culture double production.

Build wealth/research/culture + production automation double production.

Proposed trades including cities, where the cities no longer exist to be trades, are not cancelled (note: I consider this a bug because proposed trades are already cancelled if a player lacks the requisite e.g. resources/gold. could be considered not a bug).

Production decay counter on a type of build (e.g. axeman) is not reset after completing one if the next item in the queue is of the same type (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).

Feature growth/disappearance rates, and bonus discovery (mine pop) rates, do not scale with game speed.

Good luck, guys. As the best players in each of the games I joined when I joined the site, I'm excited to see you team up. I'm rooting for you!

Thanks THH, are we too late to get a ded-lurker or will you be defending us in the lurker thread when we do dumb stuff?

I think Serdoa easily ranks as better than me, he just ran into some local difficulties in 46, and I don't think we can decide between you and I just yet hammer. In fact I'm really just here to do the naming scheme, I'm expecting Fintourist to do all the real work. He's a bit quiet so far though... shifty

That was a brain-fart; of course, Serdoa is considered one of the best-ish players on the site; I guess I meant best new player in each game. I can dedlurk if you guys would like me to; I have no idea how good of a dedlurker I'd be since I've never done it before, and note I'm on a Mac so I couldn't log in, but yeah, I can dedlurk you guys if you'd like.

Great - you have my word that we'll be entertaining! mischief

I guess if you can't play the mod on your machine (or is it just that you can't log into a pitboss with the mod?) it might make it harder to make suggestions, but ded-lurking is more about patting us on the back when we spawn between Commodore and Krill isn't it?

Okay, I'm in! I don't know what it is, but Krill has mentioned several times his mod is incompatible with Macs. I guess that'll just force you guys to report really well. wink

While we're waiting here is the list of teams in the order I'd least like to start next to them:
  1. Krill/Sevenspirits (Team) - yikes why is this allowed? - [Edit: It isn't! Wahay! frown]
  2. Commodore/Kurumi (Team) - hammer please god no!
  3. Plako (Solo) - bow is a merciless civ machine who'll sniff out our weakness and crush us.
  4. Bigger/Lewwyn/Qgqqqqq (Team) - banghead ANGRY! If they're nearby lets just be really quiet shhh
  5. Serdoa (Solo) - whip capable of whipping an enormous army at the drop of a hat and crushing anyone. Show no fear, back away slowly and whatever you do: Don't. Look. Away.
  6. Pindicator/scooter (Team) - mischief probably won't go all out to destroy us, at least until they're at least two tiers ahead in tech.
  7. Ichabod/Wetbandit (Team) - rolf one of the best writers on the site must be one of the better players. No idea about Ichabod though neenerneener
  8. Nakor/CFCJesterfool (Team) - shakehead if we just try not to act like a deity AI we might just stand a chance...
  9. Slowwcheetah (Solo) - contemplate I've no idea really, sorry, only this high for his score in pb8.
  10. dtay/Retep (Team)(1st game) - dito although Retep has started pb11 very well
  11. Bacchus/Cheater Hater (Team) - toast no idea about Bacchus, but CH has kept Gillette on the straight and narrow when I've got buried in detail, we'll see if he can do the same here.
  12. suttree (Solo) - lol seems pretty sharp on the forum, no idea if that translates to civ?
  13. Azza (Solo) - alright a decent enough guy who just can't stop getting rushed. Is it our turn this time?
  14. WilliamLP (Solo) - shhh don't tell anyone, but you know how Lord Parkin has been quiet recently?
  15. Jowy (Solo or team) - neenerneener I don't think he's got a great grasp on the mechanics, although he has more MP experience than us so we'll have to see which is more important...
  16. Yuris (Solo) - shhh if he'd ever written more than ten posts in a spoiler thread we'd have some idea of how he plays, so I'd like to start next to him just to find out nod
Have I managed to sit on the fence enough THH?

Anyway, BRick, do with this what you will...popcorn Just please don't rush, I'm sure Fintourist will be back soon scared

Awesome, Old Harry, I love those type of posts. smile In return I'll ask the random number generator really nicely for you to put you by peaceful people and it'll make you go by krill anyways :P

Just out of curiosity, from the view of other teams, where would you place yourself on that list?

Best use of smileys. Ever. I think I agree generally, though my impressions of several of those names are less clear. Keeping that in mind, I'm going to be a bit uppity and rate you guys somewhere between six (just below Serdoa) and 11 (with Harry's Demogame dedlurker; that seems to make sense). Anyway, I think you/us should make a fairly good showing in this, even if we probably can't win with those top three names in the mix ...

WilliamLP addressed the Lord Parkin name-thing recently and denied it ... probably not, but fun to think about. Lewwyn I think (?) apparently joked HAK and I were Locke and Cervantes going into PB10. Shame I had to step away from that one ...

Edit: "From the view of the other teams" - did you mean what we think the other teams think of us, BRick?

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