[Spoilers]C6PBEM23: Krill sidles yonder, and probably fails

[Krill]

T102




Bah, Chev screwed the pooch on this one.

On GP, he focused on who he perceives to be the leader but he doesnt know that TAD is waiting in the wings to usurp the throne. Lack of understanding of the game position led him to vote to weaken someone when I will hold the great admiral choice was the correct play and now TAD gets his GS points. Similar issue from greenline: Boudicca is worthless and you will see players skip her, but at least it is understandable that he is trying to protect himself. I have no idea why a three way split got resolved in favour of TAD. Probably RNG.

On the bright side that means TAD has to pick up Zhang Heng before he gets any benefit. I will benefit to a small degree (need the two libraries and universities anyway), and greenline will also help weaken the benefit to TAD. I will definitely pass on Zhang Heng if TAD passes, and laugh whilst doing so.

Chev voted for holy sites. The only other player voting for that could have been TAD but he already has most of his buildings up. Chev cant know that, but not like he had many other choices as he lacks Apprenticeship. greenline just voted for whatever but then the rest of us got the easy win for IZ.

Edit: reviewing the save, Whosit is generating 4 gg points again. He is running the GG points card, so it looks like he actually wants Boudicca?!

[Quagma Blast]

I have no idea why a three way split got resolved in favour of TAD. Probably RNG.

IIRC when there is a World Council tie, the tiebreaker is who spent the greatest percentage of their diplo points.

[Krill]

Well that's a little bit shittty.

Have 30 points and spend them, win a tie breaker against someone who has 39 and can't spend the spare? Not like you can even micro diplo points, RNG would be fairer.

[Krill]

Note to self:

Culture path up in the air. Will need to swap off MF in a couple of turns as fouth trade route not available until T108 and no where close to Cartography anyway.

Build queues:

MH: overflow into IZ, then trader (from Pt lighthouse), chop forest into IZ and complete, then consider options. Probable Workshop afterwards (should only take 3 turns and you want the GE points)

Long: double check if the barracks can be built in 2 turns. If so, Barracks into Campus. If not, Campus first.

Ponytail: Lighthouse into catapult.

Mullet: No change, harbour into lighthouse.

Gold: should have around 550 gold saved by T108. If MF completes start of T109, then enough gold to buy a settler, or to buy two builders and a tile or two. Probably need to buy the settler, simply don't have the production to get everything. That still gives enough time to save the gold to upgrade the galleys due to tech limitations.

[Krill]

Further notes to self:

Great people:

GG: If Whosit picks up Boudicca, all 4 Medieval options aren't great but are acceptable, just accept whatever is available. If Whosit rejects Boudicca, consider options to use the GG to support a musket raid on a barb camp.

GAd: Himerios is up, but he is the worst Medieval GAd, although Leif is also pretty naff for me. That leaves a 2/3 chance of getting a decent admiral. Probably reject and make Chev decide if he wants to lock himself out of future GAd? Not that important, Chev will claim a admiral in 16 or so turns, I need to make the decision in about 10 turns or so.

GS: If TAD rejects Zhang Heng, I reject and lock them all up. If he accepts ZH, then greenline will get first dibs on the next GS and I should then get the second, as I should be capable of outpacing TAD with another campus completed. If Hildegard comes up first, greenline will reject her, and I have to accept even though she is junk status to me. If she comes up second, same problem but I pay more GS points. If she doesn't come up, well, I would have to reject whichever GS was second to stop TAD from getting his preferred GS (She's worth at least 8bpt to him).

I'll go on record and note that greenline would probably be in a better position if he simply accepted ZH. I think he passed around T87, which means that over 15 turns will have passed before he can start accumulating GS points again. He would likely have more points towards the next GS if he had accepted ZH! Even if he never triggered him it's a free scout.

[Krill]

T105

I wasn't planning on doing an update until the weekend, but is it possible that the RNG will stop screwing me over?

Hildegard is the new GS. greenline gets first dibs on her, but he will reject her as worthless again and then I think TAD will get there before me. I might need to run the GS card for a few turns to not get shut out, or might want to see if I can sandbag the first Renaissance GS.

Then Whosit took over Zanzibar again and my culture got a little more crushed down. Probably got an easy quest. I've had to give up on the catapult build to build the Encampment (Zanzibar is more important than Preslav) but it will be 7 or so turns before I can take it back (because of taking the 2 for 1 offer at Hong Kong). I'm probably just going to give up and throw every single envoy into Zanzibar now. Also the loss of the happiness broke some of the city builds slightly which is really annopying for how minor it is. Along with juggling Pingala and Magnus I'm down about 20 culture compared to where I should be (for a few turns anyway).

[Krill]

T107

Bit of a bigger update after a couple of points came to my attention.




TAD offered 25 gold as a gift. It's probably a timer to do with Whosit. I don't know for sure, but as TAD has a low science rate and has only just settled two cities on his eastern coast I don't think he could do anything. Therefore I'm probably wrong. I accepted the gold though, and sent a delegation back (that was my second guess, but why not just send the delegation?)

The big point here is that TAD is probably starting to consider the challenges of Whosit. I've done some major amenity trading between players to maximise everyones happy situation. It should be noted that Whosit seems to have every lux (seriously: he has salt, spice, olives, truffles, silks, marble, turtles, honey and silver either hooked or available) in available in the game, which is to be expected when he has about a third of the map to himself.

Edit: One thing I forgot the mention: TAD is in Monarchy. That puts him about 612 culture ahead of me on the route to Divine Right, but I don't know when he got DR, but he was in Monarchy on T106 (God I hate that Chivalry is on DR, it just makes Monarchy too good. MR shouldn't be hamstrung by the second diplomacy card).




Since doing the salt for silver trade with greenline, I've traded my lone spice to Chev for olives, and then traded my lone turtle to TAD for his spare spice. I'll hook a second turtle shortly. If Chev can pick up another olive, and greenline hooks his spare silver, we are at a maximum the map allows in terms of resource amenities (well, we would be if greenline would offer OB and fix his turtle).





I fired off the GS, and this is the current state of the tech tree. My science rate should increase to about 85 next turn. I'm about 15 beakers from Buttress (Due SoT108) and 25 beakers from Military Engineering (SoT109) before Cartography should land SoT113. I'm 1 tech behind Whosit, who already has ME and Stirrups, and I suspect his extra tech is Buttress.





Order of operations matters. I think that if Erasmus' post in the tech thread is correct, both guv'nors will establish, and then the increased culture from extra amenities will complete Mercenries SoT108. I waste culture if I go MF next, so have to put a turn of culture into D&P, and then finish MF S0T110 with a solid chunk of overflow. I can't upgrade two galleys until T113 at the earliest, so I probably have to swap over to D&P to complete SoT114 (a turn after Cartography), swap to Professional Army and then upgrade, and then swap back with Exploration. I should be able to complete Exploration SoT115 this way, so minimal card cost.

In relation to preferred card options:

• Naval Infrastructure is a given, worth 14gpt and 14bpt (base)
  
• Charismatic Leader needs to be swapped out to stop the generation of an envoy in CR, and delay it until I'm in Merchant Republic. I think I am at 57 now, so if it looks like there will be any delays, I need to action the swap ASAP. I will probably move over to Merchant Confederation when MF is complete (an extra 7gpt).
  
• Veterancy can be swapped for MI at any point, but as I would only want it for two turns, the Merc>MF window is likely best, but MF>D&P might also work, timing dependent. Otherwise I do want Veterancy.
  
• The final card remains UP, but the choice will shortly be 5 production pt or 8gpt. I think the production still wins for now, and likely will still win even with the fifth route and the sixth city down.
  
  
  
  
  
  The big update. Whosit passed on Bouddica. Big mistake IMO, a large bowl of greed with a side order of hubris.
  
  Whosit: For after the game, you always had to pick up Boudicca. You never had the option to reject her. You are the player with the long land border, who intends to go on the offensive, who needs the GG, not any of the other players. You have the high ground in terms of GG point generation.
  
  You were always going to reach her before me because I generated so few points and you used the Strategos card to get to the other GG so fast. When it became obvious that I was not going to speed up you had a hint that you had to pick her up, but even that is a red herring. If I got there first and rejected her, you would still have had to pick her up to keep the GG tap flowing.
  
  To the lurkers: I have spent most of this morning looking at if I wanted Boudicca. The cost has always been giving Whosit a straight +5 strength bonus in his next war and having to deal with that, and even with a new encampment at Ponytail, and building an armoury and barracks at Long, I might be able to equalize that cost with another GG of my own, but Chev and greenline can't. And I would expect Whosit to get two of the Medieval GG so he could easily fight on two fronts.
  
  The benefit is minimal. The only barb camp that exists (thanks to the low difficulty) is actually to Whosits north. It would take about 12 turns to even get there, so I can't be sure that there would even be any barbs left to capture. In relation to the actual GG ability, that is only helpful for capturing Venice if it revolts to free city status, but I've made a strategic decision I'm not going to attack greenline or TAD militarily (as that only helps Whosit), so it only helps if I can send a bunch of units north. So Boudicca is not helpful except to meet the Enlightenment inspiration (I will get to Great Admirals plus the GS I already got so this isn't a problem).
  
  The era point would have been nice though. I can live without it: I'm still not sure if I want a GA or dark age next.
  
  
  
  
  
  Ponytail: I'm considering delaying the encampment 2 turns, swapping out of Veterancy and into Maritime Industries to two turn a galley. Then I can upgrade this galley to get a move on the scout of the Rheic (western) ocean. The cost is 2 turns not in control of Zanzibar, which is a high cost so I'm not sold on it just yet.
  
  Long: Campus completes due to planned overflow after completing the horseman (before the Castles completed). The swap to MI would delay the barracks, OTOH MI allows me to build a quadrieme. This is risky because if I have no niter then I can't upgrade, but the Armoury is not high priority if I lack niter either because I can't build muskets.
  
  Weirdly enough, if I have no niter, I really need to look at what plans I have with Long as I might need to start building Men at Arms so I will need to look at policy card use.
  
  MH: Trader completes, moves to Lumberjack and makes the fourth trade route on T109. It got pushed back as I had to build the archer. Annoying but what are you going to do, but at the same time it should line up perfectly with the galley plan. The forest is chopped next turn and the IZ should also complete SoT109. The Dam should be placed T108, then probably going to three turn a workshop. I will likely leave the dam until after I'm in Merchant Republic for the +15% production of districts (in what should be a 300 production district!)
  
  Mullet: Going to hit housing difficulties unless I buy a granary or move horse and maize in (which is a surprisingly cheap option and what I'll do). Can't get a guv'nor in until SoT115 but at that point it will blitz through to size 10 at 15 base fpt. Lighthouse could be paused but won't be: this speeds up the trader for Wulrus, and I buy the settler for Walrus next turn.
  
  Lumberjack: Place IZ next turn (will be expensive at about 190 production) and struggle onwards. Should have fourth trade route making 5f/4ppt which will break the housing provision. Can't get tile improvements as a cheap solution due to lack of tiles. Might have to go with the granary option as a makeshift solution?
  
  
  
  
  
  Usually when we talk about winning and losing on T0, I'm a bit sceptical of hyperbole. I think this start might well have an argument for being an obviously OP start.
  
  Double capital horse, spice and honey with a second ring wheat to get the irrigation eureka? A double mountain campus location (it's disaster setting 1 so the volcano counts), or the volcano/geothermal vent location? Three easy to access CS. It even has the single capital desert tile for the Mids. The only thing it is missing is a capital river for a watermill, it still has the river for the commercial district. Then there are all the amenities...
  
  Really, this game would be totally different if greenline started around Chartreaux. Ah well, maybe next time.

[Krill]

Turn 108

Less than one culture short of getting Mercenaries this turn (not a surprise, I knew it would be close), so had to double check the next half dozen turns for timings. Plus one nice little fact:




New plan for use if I have niter available close by (All figures start of turn):

• T109: Complete Mercenaries, Military Engineering (more than 1 turn science overflow). Check niter, do not swap policy cards. Start Medieval Faires, Cartography. Run trade route from Lumberjack to MH. Place envoy into Zanzibar to remove suzerainity from Whosit.
  
  
• T110: Complete Medieval Faires, start Exploration. Change Veterancy to Maritime Industry. Swap Ponytail from encampment to galley, swap Long from stable to quadrieme. Place IZ at Lumberjack. Send guv'nor to Mullet.
  
  
• T111: Swap civic from Exploration (~150 invested, need ~215) to Drama and Poetry. Swap tech from Cartography (to stop completing one turn too early and queue upgrading the galley) to Education or Gunpowder (decide later).
  
  
• T112: Swap tech back to Cartography. Complete galley in Ponytail, swap back to encampment (due in 2 regardless of Veterancy, unless something wierd happens). Complete quadrieme in Long, swap back to stable or start library.
  
  
• T113: Complete Drama and Poetry (overflow around 25 culture). Complete Cartography. Change MI for Professional Army, upgrade two galleys to caravels (should have 600 gold in the bank), trigger Exploration inspiration. Swap to Exploration.
  
  
• T114: Complete Exploration. 92 influence points in the bank; Swap into Merchant Republic, 2 envoys due T123. Complete encampment at Ponytail (argument for delaying for the MR district construction bonus for efficiency, counter argument is Zanzibar suzerainity is worth far more). Remove professional army. Possible swap back into Veterancy as well (Long and Mullet benefit, possible Ponytail). Likely use Conscription as wild card slot. NI remains in place, depending on gold may be using Land Surveyors or Serfdom, but that likely needs to be delayed a few turns to save gold (need about 360 gold to buy tiles and 500 gold to buy workers). Diplo slots Merchant Confederation and Charismatic leader. Start Recorded History (due in 1, then Civil Service due in 2, then Guilds in 7, potential choice of Theology in 2 for an envoy to stack Zanzibar higher).
  
  
• T115: Settle Walrus. Profit.

If I don't have niter available:

Design a caravel rush on Whosits coast and see what happens.

[Krill]

T109

I'm starting to regret not picking up Boudicca. I could have had a job for her.




This is my niter. I have one source. I amended the plan, and swapped into land surveyors to buy the tile and impriove it this turn. 5 production for 33 gold seems a decent trade. I am grateful that Magnus has the Black Marketeer promotion because I am likely to need it, and Retinues is also going to be making an appearance soon.





TAD, obviously, is fine for niter.








Whosit, OTOH, is not. He has been building an armoury at bengal for several turns, so I think he does not have good niter supples and needs to start spamming settlers to useful locations, rather than junk filler like Milkin (I'm becoming seriously annoyed that Whosit can maker so many bad calls and he just cannot be called on them). But that's projection to some extent, because:





Urtin Duu has two niter, horse, iron and is frankly an amazing city. And I could have settled it if I a) didn't lose me head, b) understood this game and c) didn't have the joint worst start in the game (I'm scouting out Chev, his capital looks about as bad as mine but he does have land to expand into).

[Krill]

Request of lurkers: are there any GS games I can read that had significant land warfare? Without any naval support?