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Drafted Jans in 5 turns actually...and m-h has no units in his front city.
I wonder if Dreylin actually gets a couple for himself before he gives the rest to Ruff and goes after m-h? That would definately give him extra land, and make Athelete much more vulnerable to a later attack...
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What's the earliest anyone has ever gotten lib at noble or later? I don't recall it much earlier than this.
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In a OCC that someone ran on here ages ago we were getting Liberalism at crazy early dates similar to the speed here.
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Lots of tech trading with human opponents (who research faster than a noble AI) means the global tech rate is a lot faster, I guess.
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dsplaisted Wrote:Lots of tech trading with human opponents (who research faster than a noble AI) means the global tech rate is a lot faster, I guess.
Tremendously faster. Not so much better research though (I think) but rather so much less duplication of research, willingness to trade uneven beaker amounts because of beaker credits, and no WFYABTA.
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sunrise089 Wrote:What's the earliest anyone has ever gotten lib at noble or later? I don't recall it much earlier than this.
You can get Liberalism by 1 A.D. without too much difficult. Here's a pretty decent thread on the topic. I have to say I miss having Blake around...
Darrell
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Actually, we're probably looking at about 700AD or so for liberalism here, since they're STARTING liberalism now, and it'll take 2-3 centuries to research (I believe it's 25 years/turn right now. And Ruff wants to take 11 turns.)
The Apolyton thread is Vanilla only. In BTS, they intentionally made the CS slingshot much more difficult, by making Math a necessary pre-req for CS, and Masonry is now quite high on the bulb list, before even Code of Laws for Prophets. And good luck building the Oracle without researching Mysticism... (And how are we getting hammers anyway without slavery or even mines?)
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Whoops...just saw this now. Yeah, this was vanilla only. With Masonry higher on the bulb list those tricks are gone, although T-Hawk has a GM based CS slingshot that might work.
My tech path included Mysticism so I'm not sure what you meant about building The Oracle? England starts with Mining but I didn't bother with Bronze Working. Hammers came from the Cows (x2), Horse and Grassland Mine.
In a vacuum, if you have two human players working together with the right traits, I'm sure you can get Liberalism by 1000 B.C on most starts. Elizabeth and Pericles come to mind.
Darrell
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darrelljs Wrote:Whoops...just saw this now. Yeah, this was vanilla only. With Masonry higher on the bulb list those tricks are gone, although T-Hawk has a GM based CS slingshot that might work.
The Great Merchant sling to CS definitely works - it doesn't involve the Oracle so there's no risk. Whether it works well enough to be worth the effort over straight-researching CS, or worth the opportunity cost as compared to a different GP or simply trade missioning, is debatable. 
0. Get a Great Merchant somehow (market, Caste System, Great Lighthouse)
1. Research up to Currency and Code of Laws
2. Either avoid both Priesthood and Monotheism, or research Monarchy
3. Either avoid Bronze Working, or research Metal Casting
That sets up the Merchant to bulb Civil Service. I've done a late-ish version of this on occasion, usually after both Monarchy and Metal Casting (typically one via Oracle.)
September 5th, 2009, 10:18
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Cyneheard Wrote:
That's 1/3 of Ruff's teching at 100% (or is Ruff currently break-even?) science.
I have no idea how many GPs that sooooo has settled, but wait until he gets Oxford in his super specialist city...its not difficult to get over a 1000 beakers in one city that way, although with this game settings that is probably not possible. Here is my record:
![[Image: city0bu.jpg]](http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5549/city0bu.jpg)
This was a game designed specifically to see how big I could make one city, with many map re-rolls to get a coastal start with so many cottageable tiles. Here is the beaker breakdown:
![[Image: breakdown8ew.jpg]](http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7707/breakdown8ew.jpg)
All the Great Persons plus three Scientist specialists generated 396 raw beakers AND 46 raw Hammers. Those 46 raw Hammers were worth another 161 beakers, so a total of 3.6 * 396 + 161 = 1586.6 which was more than half my total. I had six trade routes (Free Market, Single Currency via the U.N.) for a total of 64 Commerce (this required starving my GP cities down to make the capital my largest city), which gives 64 * 1.5 * 3.6 = 345.6 beakers. I had 129 Commerce from tiles (golden age powered) for a total of 696.6 beakers plus another 70 beakers from tile based Hammers. That's 28% from tiles, 13% from trade, and 59% from Great Persons.
Darrell
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