RMOG: Renaissance Men of Genius

[oledavy]

Realms Beyond presents, Real Men of Genius
(Real Men of Genius)

Today we salute you Mr. Anti-Christ
(Mr. Anti-Christ)

Just like the real Anti-Christ, you have an appreciation for what makes for a stable globe-spanning imperium
(Remember to feed your people)

Faced with no imperialistic leaders left, you settled for the next best thing
(Guess Asoka will do)

In a game of legends, someone has to be out of their depth, so it might as well be you
(Please have mercy Plako)

So enjoy expanding those blue borders while you can, because that lake of fire isn't far off
(Mr. Anti-Christ)


Real Thoughts

Asoka of the Khmer (Spiritual, Organized, Ballista Elephant, Baray)

This is my favorite pick of the draft, I think Nic got the absolute best options available. When he came up to pick, Julius, Victoria, Byzantines, and Gandhi were all off the table. As far as economic leaders go, Mansa, Asoka, and Suleiman were left - all of approximately the same quality imho. With this in mind, they were clear to pick the Khmer, clearly the best civ left.

Barays buff your early growth, and get your immediate city plants growing quickly. Ballista elphants ordinarily wouldn't be much to talk about, but with Mack in the game and ivory nearby, they put Nic and co. solidly on the "do not want to rush" list.

I think Nic would have preferred IMP to get more baray-powered cities out quickly. However, Plako took the last solid IMP leader in a surprising move. So, Nic was left with the IMP/CHA or IMP/AGG, neither having a great synergy with Khmer. Facing this dilemma, he went with the 'widest' SPI leader left up, Asoka.

This pair wants to have a strong early game, keep pace as best as possible with IMP civs using barays + SPI efficiency, then transition to a late game where they can be carried by ORG. While I don't expect them to keep in step with the IMP civs, I expect they'll remain within striking distance for their city count. The combination of Asoka and Khmer means these guys will not expand as heavily as Scooter, Plako, or ourselves, but will outstrip Mackoti and Alhazard.

This might be my favorite pick on the table if it weren't for the person playing it. I like Nic, he and I used to chat a lot back in 2012. We never played a game together, but I always had an impression of him as solidly mid-tier like myself. However, we're in a game with Plako, Scooter/Sulla, and Mackoti, so the deck is stacked. That being said, with solid lurker help (Is REM his DL or co-player?), he could have a really strong showing this game.

As an aside, with Civ 6 coming out, this will probably be my last big Civ4 MP experience. I gotta say, I couldn't ask for a whole lot more from a final game. We got 2/3 of the PB6 crew back together, I get to rematch against Sullla, and I get to play in a game with a slew of really skilled players and excellent reporters. My only regrets are that I never played a Civ4 game through with Pindicator, and Commodore isn't reporting so I don't get to see what my personal traits are.

[oledavy]

And finally:

Realms Beyond Presents, Real Men of Genius
(Real Men of Genius)

Today we salute you, Mr. Synergy is for Losers
(Mr. Synergy is for Losers)

Faced with the ability to pick in the pocket, you said, screw that!
(Let's get random shit instead)

What do England and Suleiman have in common, absolutely nothing!
(Keep your opponents confused)

Let's be real though, you could probably pick Tokugawa of the United Statates and still be a threat to win
(Please don't let us start near him)

So enjoy your baffling pick Mr. Synergy is for Losers, and by the end of the game, prove your name to be correct
(Mr. Synergy is for Losers)


Real Thoughts

Suleiman of England (Imperialistic, Philosphical, Redcoat, Stock Exchnage)

We hate this pick. It's baffling in how bad this is. The only thing I can conclude is that Plako really wanted IMP. Even then, if he wanted England as a civ, I would go with IMP/AGG to have draftable pinch redcoats vs. philsophical, which is dramatically less powerful without SPI.

I can think of several things I would have gone for here over this: I could have nailed down something terrifying like: Monty of France, or Brennus of Russia. If i was really averse to going military this game, I would have grabbed Asoka/Mansa and then gone with a generic civ like England/Ottomans. If he was set on IMP, Korea might have been fun for PHI Seowons with Suleiman.

I'm getting off topic. All I conclude is that he really wanted Redcoats, and really wanted IMP, and this was the only way to get both. It just feels weird to me to give up the chance to land something synergistic.

I've spent three paragraphs complaining about this pick, let's say some positive things:

Imperialistic - Strong, as discussed much previously.
Philosophical - Could set him up to get second choice of wonders with his opening engineer if he wants it, also strong for early Oxford.
Redcoats - I've discussed these previously. I like them, WK doesn't. They fare well against other rifles, but they still lose to grens.
Stock Exhchanges - Meh. Nice, but not really a huge game-changer.

I'm just not sure what exactly what this pick wants to do, specifially how PHI plays into it. As near as I can tell, his goal will be to expand using IMP, and go kill someone with Redcoats. How PHI changes this remains to be seen.

Now's the part where we acknowledge that this selection is being played by Plako. Plako, he's been here for years, his reporting is spotty but his play is always solid. I can't think of a game off the top of my head where he hasn't at least ended near the top of the pack. He's a legendary player in a game filled with legends. Will his pick set him behind the 8 ball compared to them? We shall see.

It's also possible I'm completely underrating Redcoats. All of this will seem especially short-sighted if he runs us over with them. I'm hesitant to definitively condem this pick because of our unfamiliarity with the era, and Plako's skill as a player potentially giving him insight we lack. For now though, I will tempt fate and say this is the worst pick of the draft.

[oledavy]

And now, final ratings:

Dave's Picks:

Top Tier: Scooter/Sullla, Mackoti
Mid Tier: RMOG, Nic/REM
Bottom Tier: Alhazard, Plako

WK's Picks:

Top Tier: RMOG, Mackoti
Mid Tier: Scooter/Sullla, Nic/REM
Bottom Tier: Alhazard, Plako

Although, with water confirmed near our start, I'm feeling significantly better about the Dutch pick. My rankings are also based on the assumptions that SA economy will work here, and we're close enough together that Byzcoti can scare people with Cats.

However, soon, the period of speculation will be over soon enough and we can finally see which of these picks ends up being the best read on the map

WK, I tried to include as much as I could from your email in the ads/real thoughts. If you have anything you want to add/new reveltions on people's picks, feel free to post them.

[Krill]

cat = Catapult
phract = Cataphract.

Please.

[The Black Sword]

Synergy is overrated IMO.

[Dreylin]

cat = Catapult
phract = Cataphract.

Please.

Aha, I've been wrestling with this in PB32, thanks!

[pindicator]

My only regrets are that I never played a Civ4 game through with Pindicator, and Commodore isn't reporting so I don't get to see what my personal traits are.

You could always up your lurker game in 34

But if Civ6 lives up to be the spiritual successor to 4 for MP games then let's team up for one of those!

[Krill]

Synergy is overrated IMO.

You are hearby banned from picking AGG Zulu.

We need an /r/PYongYang banning meme around here.

[oledavy]

You certainly are Sir, well played!

Lovin' these player previews!

Thank you both!

You wanted some extra jungle at your start, right? And some 'global warming'?

I'm just waiting for the part of the game where I load in one day and every tile around Plains Cows has turned to desert.


Okay, collected thoughts on things I had not gotten around to responding to until now.

Regarding Edu vs. Astro, slight preference towards education. Mostly because I don't think having astro first will convey any significant advantages over having it second. We won't be looking to invest in EI raiding parties for a little while, almost certainly not in between our 1st and 2nd techs, if I understand how long it will take to research things anyway.

By teching education first, we:

1. Have more time to lay the groundwork for Oxford. Building a university in the capital is more important than an observatory because we need 6 to unlock Oxford. That's one less to build for essentially the same benefit.
2. It forces whoever is teching to liberalism not to sandbag it - one more potential competitor for the tech.
3. It opens up double pre-req bonuses on GP for our one turn of teching it, not that this is a huge edge, but every beaker counts.

So, I'm currently favoring education first. We will have to research both soon anyway, so it just comes down to whatever accelerates our later plans more.


How many settlers do we want from the capital?

Probably 2ish. I want to start growing it as soon as possible. We'll sort this out as we continue to edit the micro though.

When do we want to switch our other cities over to building settlers?

Kinda just going to have to wait and see on this, see what the forest/food situation is. I do agree that we should try to make our second city a food/gp plant though, and whip it hard for settlers. I think we'll have a better idea of how to answer this question once we get some more scouting in, however.

When do we mine the Iron?

As soon as possible. I like cheap HR units, but that's a really good tile to work for a BC capital. 4-6 will be enough to keep us going for a bit. If we want more warriors later on, we can always delay hooking up a city to the trade network.

How many workers do we need?

Lots. Definitely 2-3 per city.

How big do we grow the capital

You pretty much covered everything here. In short, as big as possible as soon as possible. We definitely want to prioritize more health resources where possible, and letting the capital get onto infra builds after our initial expansion phase.


I briefly talked about this in chat, but regarding the map:

- I think its very safe to assume mirrored starts.
- Given our placement in the south and the water percentage, I assume 3 north, 3 south, alternating as it were. If correct, this means we have four neighbors, 1 west, 1 east, 1 northwest, 1 northeast. This does mean we're almost guranteed to have Mack as a neighbor.
- We might have water between us and our eastern/western neighbors, but it is too soon to tell that.


Is 35% enough for circumnavigation? If that's the case, I would like to semi-prioritize that. Is there a lurker who can confirm that 35% water is enough for Circumnavigation? Also, how sure are you on the math WK?


I'm really glad that we got a decent amount of water on this map! Looking like the Dutch pick will pay off

[oledavy]

Great thread so far

Glad you're enjoying it :D

Synergy is overrated IMO.

Probably a bit but...

You are hearby banned from picking AGG Zulu.

I'm not sure that it's that overrated

We need an /r/PYongYang banning meme around here.

What is that?

and

cat = Catapult
phract = Cataphract.

Please.

Sure

You could always up your lurker game in 34

But if Civ6 lives up to be the spiritual successor to 4 for MP games then let's team up for one of those!

I have a confession to make.....when the double city raze happened.....I just had to know what was going on

I haven't felt like then like I can ask really detailed questions anymore or offer detailed advice, but rest assured, I am still rooting for you and am helping you thread spam and nobody else

We can hope! I'm optimistic at this point.


And with that WK, I think I am finally caught up again on everything I missed responding to in this thread. Finally got all the previews done! Let me know if you need my input on anything that I may have missed.

I'm cool with you being the primary turnplayer until the 12th, at some point after which I'd like to start playing some. We can tentatively alternate so the reporting load is not too much.

I will look through your micro tomorrow and try to improve it, although I doubt I will. Operation 5 Workers, 5 Warriors & 1 Settler By Turn 201 is a go!

Time for a lot of exploring and planning out future cities

Hopefuly Mackoti gets back tomorrow and we can really kick this thing off.