[SPOILERS PB71]Krill: By the numbers, when the walls fell (on everyone else)

[Krill]

The short answer is no.

I know some of the value that various techs will provide to me, but until I come to turn tech back on, I do not have all of the information available to evaluate what is the best path to achieve my goals. I can estimate the value of certain elements of each tech (2-4 turns after IW is researched I can have 2 grassland jungles and the gems jungle chopped, and a further 2-3 turns after that I can make a further 6cpt and open up the farms at Cherry and Pomegranate. I can estimate more vaguely still, the value of building a couple of swords that far into the future, btu I cannot evaluate where iron is and how long it will take to hook, and the benefit to any cities in terms of hammers). And that is just one tech to compare against many others.

Generally players who design long term tech paths fail to adapt to changing circumstances (this is not the same thing as recognising eg that Guilds opens up knights, which may enable a neighbour conquest which is one of the steps to forcing a concession). Players have to constantly evaluate new information as it comes to light and see if that changes any plans. Right now that means I have to wait and see what Pindicator does with his GE.

[Krill]

Question for lurkers: Now that I have completed the stables quest and choose the option that stables get +1 food, if I settle an eighth city and build a stables, would that stables also give +1 food per turn or not?

[RefSteel]

Yes, all stables you build for the rest of the game will gain the bonus. (The only case I can think of where you might not get +food on a stable is if someone gifts you a city that already has a stables in it.)

[Krill]

   

Thanks RefSteel, this map is making me reconsider the value in Khmer in general, and that food makes a significant difference for some cities.

[Krill]

Whip Mids T92. That's the big one now, do I get Mids. Once we know one way or the other I can commit to a plan.

I've moved the 8XP HA down to defend against the Archer. I thought about it and with so many units in Opis I do not want bing screwing me around, just want to get the HA to 10XP and get out of there. I'll find another barb to defend against for the final XP without too much difficulty.

After Mids, I'm thinking about letting Pear roll onto an aqueduct and HG for the GE points and health (Apple will be health capped from size 12 or so, Rhubarb is worse), it's an efficient hammer transfer system and the GE points opens up a relatively quick second GP as either a GSpy or GE, and the GE could be used for a Machinery bulb if felt right...or even to steal AP from Commodore (his plans are obvious).





Currency will only take 8 turns, not 9 due to whipping a library in Rhubarb T91 and not losing any commerce tiles. If I land MIds and revolt T93 tto Rep, then the extra beakers from the Apple scientists, plus working a scientist in Pomegranate for a few turns should drop it to a 7 turn tech (T97), but will use up almost 300 gold. The next tech would have to be forced out using rep scientists if needed ASAP ie if Pin tries to samurai rush me.

A second player researched IW after Commodore. Looking at the score increases that can only be Yuri (every other player had a score increa related to pop growth). Not sure that was a good choice, OTOH I think he wants iron for war elephants so *shrug* If he can get war elephants out then the Keshiks will bounce of them.

[greenline]

totestra sure loves to make its natural chokepoints.

would serfdom + irrigation make rushing CS viable? does this version of RtR even have serfdom superfarms? (makes me miss the RFC version, where you get 2f/2h/1c plains farms to spam as Russia)

[Krill]

This map script is Greener tectonics, although I can't tell the difference on these settings.

Serfdom does give +1 commerce to farms but I am making 8gpt at 0% science. Serfdom is not going to make a dent (worth 9 commerce per turn after I get IW). Serfdom is not the answer. Growing population to work 2/1/1 tiles is only sensible if you are storing the pop for some purpose ie whipping drafting or a GA.

The only way out of this is vertical growth onto cottages, cycling cities onto and off scientists to get required techs (IW, Calendar, MC, Lit roughly in that order) and Construction when needed (ie sooner rather than later). Whip/build markets and Ziggs in the most economical manner and guard the borders. Keep Bing off balance so I can't get caught from both sides at once.

With the gold hooked I have +3 happy in all cities. Markets give +1, Calendar will be +2 and add a further +1 from a market for an easy happy cap of 11 in all cities. Forges start making sense at higher pop cities withe lots of incidental hammers, and happy cap is 13. Rep boosts that to 17. With Exp aqueducts and hooking the sheep at Raspberry and the wheat at Olive I can make this work. Right now Ziggs don't do much but with cities at that high pop I will outstrip every other player even without great traits.

Some cities can make this work. Apple, Cherry, Rhubarb. Others like Pomegranate top out at much lower levels. Pear is basically worthless beyond size 7. I also need to keep up a little bit of military but with barracks and stables everywhere not like that's a problem of some cities need to be kept at those lower pops.

Unit costs are ameliorated by having more pop. City costs managed by Ziggs and not building more cities. It's vertical growth or nothing.

Now I just have to see about Mids because Rep is what strings this together.

[Krill]

Commodore can beat me and he wins in a true race, everyone else would beat me by turn order. Pins GE has been beaten already though.

Time for everyone to show their hand.

[Krill]

[Tarkeel]

Commodore is making 18 culture from Oracle, and 5 culture from the shrine and 4-5 (I can never remember which) just form the holy city.

Both, sort of. A holy city is 5 culture, which is 4 more than normal religion. So if you're counting first every city as 1 each, then you add 4.