[SPOILERS] Sandover(cre/spi) of Egypt

[Krill]

Nice work. Great turn played there :b:

[Sandover]

So TT sent everybody this offer;

I have CC'd all of you because this is a request that I want to make of everyone to see if they will support it.


My army is crippled and being bottom of the leaderboard by a massive margin has destroyed a lot of my enjoyment of this game. I will not quit as it is my civ and I want to see it through to an end at some point, and it would let you all down even more.


I have one proposal I would like to make that would make things interesting for me but costs you relatively little. This is what it is:


1) I sell off my cities to the highest bidder except Cha Cha Cha and become an Independent City State
2) I get NAPs from everyone for 50 turns to resurrect my capital which has been weakened.
3) I get to transport my few remaining units to my capital unhindered to protect my new city state.


I will still be a non-entity for winning the game so you don't lose anything important.


I know this isn't exactly a massive win for any of you, but I am hoping you will agree to this. If not, I will play on as best I can, but I will just fall as far behind and someone will take my cities later on.


Thanks,


TT

Here's my response to him;

Chancellor,

Your proposal will never work for a number of reasons. The most dominant one is probably that it's common knowledge that any cities abandoned by the German army will end up under Egyptian control before too long, no matter what civs have their mark on the city banners.

I'm probably wasting my time here, but I'm going to make yet another attempt to end this war. It won't be remotely as favourable as the last one, but with the decimation of your army and the Khmer failure to overcome the garrison of Worthington in mind I expect you to find it reasonable nevertheless.

§1 Germany surrenders to Egypt. The cities of Foxtrot, Jive and Charleston are to be transferred into Egyptian control as part of the surrender.

§2 Germany becomes a city state based at Cha Cha Cha and is not allowed to found or overtake additional cities without Egyptian permission.

§3 The Pharaoh swear to protect the sovereignity of the German city state as if Cha Cha Cha was part of Egypt. This does not involve protection versus barbarians.

§4 Egypt may not take control of Cha Cha Cha. The two exceptions are Germany breaking this treaty or by request of the Chancellor himself.

§5 Germany commits to never act against the greater good of Egypt. If in doubt, the Chancellor is bound to first communicate with the Pharaoh. However, Germany is allowed to compensate its current allies for the aid they have given so long as said compensation is of purely economical nature (gold).

§6 Germany is allowed to retain its current army but may under no circumstances engage Egypt in war.

§7 Open Borders are permanently enabled. Egypt receives limitless right of passage through Germany. Germany's right of passage is limited to the area east of Nubian, but is limitless in that area itself.

§8 Germany permanently trade Egypt its Silver. Egypt permanently trade Germany one of each spare resource that Germany doesn't already posses, including strategic resources.

§9 Germany share its map with Egypt as a one time thing.

§10 Both nations agree to never spend more EP's on each other.

I realise I need to make you an offer that doesn't put you in a position to betray your allies, so I took particular care to make sure you can repay your "debts" if you want. I also refrained from asking for part of your military so you don't end up in a situation where you directly support my war effort. You fought your battle against me and lost, and I don't see what more than this your allies can reasonably demand from you. Even so, if you have other deals that interfere with this treaty let me know and maybe we can work around them. I'm definitly willing to negotiate to some extent, though be aware that this is probably going to be my last attempt at ending this war by the pen rather than by the sword.

I do not consider this offer secret so you're free to share it as you see fit.

Pharaoh Sandover of Egypt

[Sandover]

Pharaoh,


I accept your offer. I thank you for it and hope that it works out well.


Chancellor Twinkletoes

Chancellor,

I'm glad to hear that. I've already played and passed the save to Bob so you need to make the peace offer when the game gets to you. I didn't attack any of your units while playing so you'll find that they're all alive.

One down, four to go.

The long term loss of not controlling Cha Cha Cha is very minor compared to the short term gain of freeing up the Egyptian 1st Army for action in the south, so I'm very happy to finally end this war. Moogle could cause some trouble if he decides to get frisky but considering his power rating I'm pretty sure he'll opt against it. I'd show you a power graph, but it's a lot less fun now when I no longer have visibility on everybody. I'm thinking I'll try to reestablish diplomatic contact with the Celts once the deal with TT is active in-game, seeing as we'll now be neighbours. I'm sure Moogle will find me... reasonable.

Turn update coming in a while.

[Sandover]

Turn 124

Nothing interesting on the German front (bloody hell, TT killed a Shock Knight with one of his silly Spearmen!). Instead we once again pay attention south. Timmy had two of his HA's clear the improvements on the tile they were standing and deleted them, so that the others could escape. He also deleted the Worker. Bob's Sentry Chariot, however, didn't manage to escape and is now dead.

As expected, the Roman stack move against Weird River. The troubling knews is that their horde have been reinforced by some of the new Khmer nobility, in the form of three Knights.



Uh-oh! Time to abandon Weird River.

Wait, what? Three shitty Combat I Knights? That's it?

Note how I stationed three Knights of my own for a hit-and-run last turn, leaving just enough movement points to both hit the stack and retreat into the safety of Weird River. And no, those Knights are no subpar soldiers with only one promotion...

Said and done, Timmy now has three Knights less. At odds of 72% and 67% I fully expected to lose one fight, but I guess the loss of that Shock Knight to TT's Spear had me due for some luck.

Bob was nice enough to place a War Chariot next to the city for me, so I also get to pick up an xp for my 4 xp Pikeman. Thank you Bob!



Bob's soldier are now all alone. The Khmer elite that were to protect them have had their dead bodies littered over the Egyptian country side even before they reached the city. The Romans, like everyone else, have heard the news of how the Chancellor surrendered to their common enemy just one day after his soldiers tried to stand up to the Egyptian army for the first time. They are also aware that the return of the Khmer mounted squadron (or rather, the sad remains of it) that failed to conquer Worthington have spread fear among the Roman people. These soldiers of Rome are now the last hope of the nation, and they know it just as well as they know they're marsching against a superior enemy that has never been defeated. The mental pressure is immense, and the commanders struggle to keep morale up.

I spend 302 gold to upgrade the defenders in Weird River. It lets me look a lot more desperate than I am, hopefully increasing the chance Bob carries out his attack. Also, they will help me waste that stack next turn, as I want an as decisive victory as possible. Victory? Against that large stack? Oh yes!

What if I tell you that 10 healthy Knights and 2 Catapults are ready to hit the stack if it walk just one tile closer? Sorry guys, but this so called "invasion" won't cause more entertainment than this unless more units reinforce.

Where do I get all of my units from? Glad you asked!



Is it obvious I'm at war?

Most of that is golden age production, as only two cities are slaving units this turn. I have 27 Knights, not counting the ones currently in production. Something tells me Bob is going to suffer a counter attack real soon...

Those of you who aren't blind can see that a new city has popped up. Say hello to my newest addition - Liverpool.



Since TT had that ManU theme going early on I decided Liverpool was the perfect name for my first city founded on German ground. It won't be more than a weak hybrid at best, but it's worth founding nevertheless. I had the Settler built some time ago but was waiting for the right moment to settle, hence the delay. I'm now at 15 cities, equal to Scooter that was pulling ahead shortly. Note how I take care not to waste grassland in my city planning.

The ending of the war with Germany will come as a nice relief, considering that some cities are now suffering a large war weariness penalty due to the huge battle that took place. It's a shame I never got around to killing Wayne Rooney (visible far north in the last screen) or Gary Neville, but I guess I'll just have to live with that.

[Sandover]

What the duce? Four player threads above mine!? Not on my watch!

So, uhm, lets talk about... hm.

Great People! M'yes, that's the ticket. So what do I know about great people?

Moogle has been getting a lot of Prophets, that's for sure. He's built three shrines and bulbed Theology along the course of the game. As far as I know he's generated four Prophets and nothing else, though I'm not keeping perfect track of things.

Scooter got two so far. Scientist for capital academy and Spy for a golden age. Also a Great General I believe?

Timmy... got two I think. Scientist for academy and recently a Merchant. And two Generals, of which one is dead.

Bob used an Engineer for the Pyramids, and another Engineer for his current golden age I believe. I know him to also have gotten a Scientist and... at least one more, maybe a Prophet? Plus the General he gave me and the Prophet I gave to him for his shrine.

Myself, I gave a Prophet to Bob and got one from TT that was used for Theology. An Engineer bulbed Machinery, a Merchant was cashed in at Cha Cha Cha, a Prophet used for my golden age and a Great Artist bombed Worthington. I still haven't used the Artist from Music, and I'm due to generate a GP out of Sandoria in two turns. Here's hoping for an Engineer so I can (at least in part) bulb Taj Mahal.

I'm not sure TT ever generated a second GP, but I'm thinking he must've had another Prophet by now. Can't remember.

[Sandover]

Scooter failed to pass the save friday and Timmy has been holding it since yesterday so I'm getting the feeling I won't get to play again until tomorrow.

Boooring!

[Sandover]

I finally received the save and note some interesting things upon opening the game.

TT's Naming Request
He seems to have spotted the naming of my last city on the diplo screen as he request that neither of his former cities are given names related to Liverpool. I actually never intended to change those names so I will save him the humiliation. Unless he makes an attempt at mentioning yesterday's game...

The Roman Retreat
Silly me managed to scare them away before I was done with them. That's lame, as my chances of launching a successful counter attack now became severely limited due to that stack being able to strengthen the defenses.

Scooter's Subterfuge
Both Open Borders and the Sheep for Dyes trade were cancelled without a single attempt to mention it in an email. He left the Fur for nothing trade in place though, no doubt hoping I wouldn't notice it and let him enjoy some free happiness. Not falling for that, and it's obvious Scooter is going to support my oponents, so I have to account for that.

With these developments in mind I decided it was time to have a look at the greater picture before moving onward, so I kill the game and head to the forum. It's time for some stream of consiousness.

With Germany reduced to a city state this is now effectively a game of five. The large issue for me, obviously, is that the civs are splitting into two groups - one group of four, and one group of me. I'm not gonna try to pretend I didn't have it coming, so lets forget about the past and look to the future. What are my goals?

First and foremost, I need to break up this group constilation. Is it doable?

Timmy and Scooter are my main oponents to win the game, and aren't threatened by any attempt I might make to go on the offensive. Nope, not gonna have a lot of luck there. Bob has pretty much gone all-in on trying to take me down a notch, and I think he's way too indebted to Timmy to consider breaking out. That leaves Moogle, who is the wild card in the other group. I don't know how far his support goes, but I do know that his main motivation for helping out must have been the fear of me conquering Germany. Well, that didn't work out that great for him, and he's now on the front line with a weak and obsolete army. It must be in his interest to avoid a war with me, and thusly I might be able to negotiate him into a state of neutrality - clearing my eastern front from immediate danger. Yes, I must speak to Moogle.

Step 1: reestablish diplomatic contact with Celtica.

But, Celtic neutrality or not, I still have to get myself out of this war somehow. Considering the effort being put into trying to take me down a notch, that probably isn't doable unless I lose my position of strength or outright win by going on the offensive. As such, I'm forced to either remain on the defensive while trying to do enough economical build-up to stay ahead or to gamble by going on the counter attack.

If I can restrict the fighting to a single front - the south - I'm undoubtedly in a good position to fight a defensive war. I only have two places where I need to defend - at Worthington and Weird River - while Rome has to garrison four cities along our border (awesome settling plan there!). So long as I keep track of my oponents technological progress, and keep a decent estimate of what numbers they could potentially throw against, while building enough units (Catapults) to make sure another invasion won't be successful, I should find myself in a good place to expand my economy. I can revert to short periods of build-up (swapping into Organized Religion for five or so turns now and then) while I defend my current holdings, and rebuild Germany. I think this is definitly the way to go now when Rome has pulled back.

Step 2: make a technology chart.

Ok, now is probably the best time to get that done. See you in a bit.

[Sandover]

Bob

Civics
Representation
Vassalage
Slavery
------
Organized Religion

Military
- Can field Praetorians, Longbows, Crossbowmen and Horse Archers.
- Cannot adopt Theocracy.
- Cannot construct the Heroic Epic (lacks HE-level unit, I think).
- Can construct the Globe Theatre.
- Can only move two tiles per movement point on roads.

Economy
- Cannot build Grocers, Universities or Banks.

Things of Note
- Lacks four techs for drafted Muskets.
- Is likely going to research Engineering or Guilds next.



Timmy

Civics
Hereditary Rule
Vassalage
Slavery
Mercantilism
Organized Religion

Military
- Can field all medieval units except Macemen.
- Cannot adopt Theocracy
- Can probably construct the Heroic Epic.
- Can construct the Globe Theatre.

Economy
- Can build Grocers and Banks.
- Cannot build Universities or Courthouses.

Things of Note
- Lacks four techs (one is Meditation) for drafted Muskets.
- Likely to head up either the Education branch or toward drafting next.



Scooter

Civics
Hereditary Rule
Bureaucracy
Slavery
------
------

Military
- Can field Oromos and Knights.
- Cannot adopt Theocracy.
- Cannot construct the Heroic Epic.
- Cannot construct the Globe Theatre.

Economy
- Can build Grocers and Universities.
- Cannot build Banks.

Things of Note
- One tech away from drafted Oromos.
- Is going to win the Liberalism race. Might grab something more expensive than Nationalism unless challenged soon.
- Likely to research Nationalism next.



Moogle

Civics
Hereditary Rule
------
Serfdom
------
Organized Religion

Military
- Bonus Guerilla promotion.
- Can field Longbows, Crossbowmen and Chariots.
- Can adopt Theocracy and Vassalage.
- Can construct the Heroic Epic.
- Cannot construct the Globe Theatre.
- Can only move two tiles per movement point on roads.
- Cannot build Stables.

Economy
- Cannot build Grocers, Universities or Banks.

Things of Note
- Far away from drafted Muskets.
- Likely to research Horseback Riding, Engineering or Guilds next.

[Sandover]

Having posted that I should probably summarise myself for comparison purposes. (Anything for the lurkers, right?)

Sandover

Civics
Hereditary Rule
Vassalage
Slavery
Mercantilism
Theocracy

Military
- Can field all medieval units.
- Can construct the Heroic Epic (done).
- Can construct the Globe Theatre (lack Theatres and designated city).
- Can build triple-promo mounted units.

Economy
- Can build Grocers and Banks.
- Cannot build Universities.

Things of Note
- Two techs away from drafted Muskets.
- Will drop to second most advanced civ once Scooter research Liberalism.



All things consider, I'd say I don't need to be particularily worried once I get enough Catapults built for my 2nd Army Group. If I go for drafting next I can draft some Muskets for garrison duty in the exposed cities and be content playing defense while getting back on track regarding economical build-up, heading for Education and Printing Press in the progress. I'll probably do five turns of drafting once I reach Nationalism, building Catapults and more Knights at the same time, then revert to Organized Religion for my next civic swap. I'll lose my triple-promo Knights by not going back to Vassalage but something tells me I'm going to need the extra happiness from Barracks. In fact, it may make sense finishing Nationalims before Gunpowder for an earlier happiness bonus alone. Hm, probably not. War weariness will be heavily reduced now when TT surrendered. Though I think I have a good general idea of what needs to be done this turn.

[Rowain]

Having posted that I should probably summarise myself for comparison purposes. (Anything for the lurkers, right?)

And much appreciated

Good Luck in your 1 vs 2/3/4 struggles.