[SPOILERS] - PBEM26 Lurker thread

[Krill]

What a whinefest. I really need a break.



I don't understand Krill and Lewwyn. This is probably not as much fun as having wet corn in your BFC, but after 25 other PBEMs all having strong capitals, why not try something different. This is totally possible start that one could roll out from standard map scripts. I know most of us are rerolling here, but here there should be no need for this. No one will have significantly better capital.

No intresting choices? How can Lewwyn say that after seeing the speculation from Gaspar. I personally find it intresting dilemma and it is not clear which desicion is best. You could make a respectable slow growing hammer capital via moving in the middle of the island, but lose coastal status and make dot mapping very hard for you. If you really want to farm something move towards Wheat, if you want to max the amount of flood plains move south. Settling in place gets pretty strong after you get Wheat online. Not to mention that now there are more viable nations compared to the situation where I would have put farmable or sea resources visible.

The problem with not knowing which decision is best on low food starts such as these is that if someone gets lucky they can basically do most of the work to win the game then and there, it's a basic incomplete knowledge problem. Because they don't know what they are moving towards, they'd be gambling. What would have perhaps worked better is if you defogged every tile on the island, and every coastal and ocean tile that could be in the fat cross of any city settled on the island. This would allow players to make informed decisions, which they need.

PBEM17 worked really well because the players had enough information about where they could move on T0 and what resources they would have to work with that they could make informed decisions. Same with the other PBEMs that used this picking method, but this start doesn't give the players that information. You should consider the difference that the PB3 starts had with each team because of where teh starting settlers and warriors started: Kyan could only see 9 tiles and no food resources so moved on T0 and screwed himself, whereas other players could see the resources and hence settled for 2 food starts. Here you have shown players a plains cow and resources at the start (remember PBEM16 Plako?) and one food resource really fair away in what appears to be a fairly junk neighbourhood, and if I hadn't spoiled myself you've have given tyhe Vikings alone vision on a possible crab/cow/2 hills/5 forest/4 fp start, whereas the others wouldn't have had that information.

[Ichabod]

Well, just to give my 2 cents, FFH PBEM VI has a very, very poor map (I mean in in-game terms, lots of plains, few resources) and I'm having a lot of fun while playing it. You really have to think about your decisions, because the same old strategies wouldn't work so well.

I know that the discussion here is not only about quality of the land in the map. But I just wanted to point that out.

[Twinkletoes89]

On another note,

Can anyone understand why Sian has chosen Aztec?

[darrelljs]

Yeah...a lot of the non-Krill whining is about how bad the start is, but honestly its not that weak. Krill's point that the tile 2S is a wild card is valid, but I think overstated. You can always move your Settler, and losing one turn of settling isn't make/beak. You might want to consider defogging it in the final save you give the players.

Mapmaker is the second least likely job I'll take at RB, right behind pitboss game admin .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Can anyone understand why Sian has chosen Aztec?

The UB is stellar, especially with the relative lack of happy on this style map, and the urgent need to use the whip for production. Not saying that's what I would have done, but its not a horrendous pick.

Darrell

[Ichabod]

I bet he will couple it with an organized leader, since double speed lighthouses would be a good thing (and then he'll get a double speed UB too) + toroidal large map also favours organized.

With Mehmed taken, I bet he will take Zara to go with the Aztec pick.

[darrelljs]

He should take FDR. I can't stand rego's pick. Its just so wrong.

Darrell

[Ichabod]

Even though I called Sian's pick, I agree with darrell and rego that FDR and Napoleon are better ones.

Guess we will see Bismarck of Inca, a very solid pick, in my opinion, even if GLH and Colossus are banned.

[darrelljs]

pindicator certainly won round 1. Vikings + the only IND leader.

Darrell

[plako]

I like Mehmed of Carthage. Lots of useful cheap buildings.

Pyramids will be big in this map. Therefore I moved a bit the positioning of the stone in the island so that everyone can see it. Neverhteless FDR probably gets it. I did also some other modifications e.g. adding tundra Deer to starting island. Here is Analysis with Novices tool:

Player 0
Zara_yaqob of Aztec
111 land tiles.
(56 grass, 31 plains, 13 deserts, 10 tundra, 1 snow. 25 forests, 6 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 30 hills.)
667 total food potential.
1,65 food per non-ocean tile.
176 total hammer potential.
0,44 hammers per non-ocean tile.
293 coastal tiles.
104 ocean tiles.

13 strategic resources (2 oil, 2 horse, 1 coal, 1 aluminum, 2 copper, 1 iron, 1 uranium, 1 ivory, 1 marble, 1 stone).
8 happy resources (1 whale, 1 dye, 1 wine, 1 fur, 1 ivory, 1 sugar, 1 silk, 1 incense).
34 food resources (2 pig, 3 wheat, 6 fish, 7 clam, 1 whale, 8 crab, 3 deer, 2 cow, 1 corn, 1 sugar).
34 health resources (2 pig, 3 wheat, 6 fish, 7 clam, 8 crab, 3 deer, 2 cow, 1 wine, 1 corn, 1 sugar).


Player 1
Joao of Inca
111 land tiles.
(58 grass, 31 plains, 11 deserts, 10 tundra, 1 snow. 26 forests, 4 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 27 hills.)
679 total food potential.
1,62 food per non-ocean tile.
190 total hammer potential.
0,45 hammers per non-ocean tile.
308 coastal tiles.
101 ocean tiles.

16 strategic resources (1 uranium, 1 ivory, 1 marble, 2 copper, 2 horse, 1 stone, 4 iron, 1 coal, 1 aluminum, 2 oil).
10 happy resources (2 fur, 1 ivory, 2 silk, 1 gold, 1 sugar, 1 whale, 1 spices, 1 wine).
33 food resources (6 clam, 10 fish, 5 cow, 2 wheat, 1 banana, 4 crab, 1 pig, 1 sugar, 1 whale, 1 deer, 1 corn).
34 health resources (6 clam, 10 fish, 5 cow, 2 wheat, 1 banana, 4 crab, 1 pig, 1 sugar, 1 spices, 1 deer, 1 wine, 1 corn).


Player 2
Mehmed of Carthage
106 land tiles.
(61 grass, 27 plains, 6 deserts, 11 tundra, 1 snow. 23 forests, 3 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 32 hills.)
642 total food potential.
1,64 food per non-ocean tile.
188 total hammer potential.
0,48 hammers per non-ocean tile.
285 coastal tiles.
87 ocean tiles.

16 strategic resources (3 coal, 3 horse, 2 aluminum, 2 iron, 1 copper, 1 oil, 1 uranium, 1 ivory, 1 marble, 1 stone).
7 happy resources (1 dye, 1 whale, 1 wine, 1 sugar, 1 fur, 1 ivory, 1 silver).
34 food resources (7 fish, 5 clam, 2 sheep, 1 whale, 10 crab, 2 wheat, 2 deer, 3 cow, 1 sugar, 1 corn).
34 health resources (7 fish, 5 clam, 2 sheep, 10 crab, 2 wheat, 2 deer, 3 cow, 1 wine, 1 sugar, 1 corn).


Player 3
Isabella of Ottoman
105 land tiles.
(58 grass, 29 plains, 7 deserts, 10 tundra, 1 snow. 26 forests, 4 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 32 hills.)
659 total food potential.
1,57 food per non-ocean tile.
185 total hammer potential.
0,44 hammers per non-ocean tile.
316 coastal tiles.
79 ocean tiles.

14 strategic resources (3 aluminum, 1 coal, 2 copper, 1 oil, 1 iron, 2 horse, 1 uranium, 1 stone, 1 ivory, 1 marble).
8 happy resources (1 whale, 2 spices, 1 wine, 1 fur, 1 sugar, 1 silk, 1 ivory).
32 food resources (11 crab, 8 fish, 1 whale, 3 clam, 2 wheat, 2 cow, 1 deer, 1 corn, 1 sugar, 1 sheep, 1 rice).
34 health resources (11 crab, 8 fish, 2 spices, 3 clam, 2 wheat, 2 cow, 1 deer, 1 wine, 1 corn, 1 sugar, 1 sheep, 1 rice).


Player 4
Franklin_roosevelt of Viking
111 land tiles.
(62 grass, 28 plains, 9 deserts, 11 tundra, 1 snow. 25 forests, 3 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 26 hills.)
684 total food potential.
1,64 food per non-ocean tile.
174 total hammer potential.
0,42 hammers per non-ocean tile.
305 coastal tiles.
101 ocean tiles.

16 strategic resources (3 horse, 2 aluminum, 2 coal, 2 iron, 2 copper, 1 oil, 1 uranium, 1 ivory, 1 marble, 1 stone).
7 happy resources (1 whale, 1 spices, 1 wine, 1 fur, 1 ivory, 1 silk, 1 gems).
32 food resources (1 whale, 6 crab, 9 fish, 7 clam, 1 sheep, 2 wheat, 1 deer, 2 cow, 1 banana, 2 corn).
33 health resources (6 crab, 9 fish, 7 clam, 1 spices, 1 sheep, 2 wheat, 1 deer, 2 cow, 1 wine, 1 banana, 2 corn).