RtR mod 4.1.0.1 Discussion Thread

[Gavagai]

One suggestion about Caravels: I think they should not be able to carry military units OR should not be able to enter territory without OB. Otherwise, it opens up the possibility of cheesy moves like a "scouting" Caravel wondering deep into neighbor's territory, finding a warrior-defended capital and unloading a knight into it. I do not think that such possibilities add much value to the game.

[Krill]

Caravels do not have the ability to enter cultural borders without OB, we removed that in .9.2 and is in place in PB4w.

[Krill]

I think +1 food per town worth a try in some kind of test game in the future. And I am not sure that infinite specialists are that strong in the late game. It's a nice thing to have under many setups but certainly not something indispensable. In respect to moving - I suggest buffing Stature of Liberty instead and making Democracy cheaper. Combined with powerful Emancipation, it can make Democracy worth researching.
Btw, another thing I would like to try is moving coal plants from Assembly Line to Electricity to space out Industrialization between two tech paths. But this is a hard suggestion to test for obvious reasons

I agree that +1 for on towns on a civic is actually a pretty interesting option, if the +100% growth works, in the sense it is accessible it might create an opportunity for a player to use Emancipation to get a second lot of cottages down and grown. I do not believe that any changes to a civic is going to have massive changes if it is balanced.

The first said is that this will only matter if the game is still undecided. Anything below a 15 player game can't expect to reach that point.

[Gavagai]

PB22 had 11 players and was decided in a space race.

[Gavagai]

I believe that mixing up weak and strong players in one game (what we typically do) has much more to do with early endings than the number of players itself. Might be interesting to eventually play a small "vets only" pitboss, its been a while since we did it last time.

[Krill]

I'm not saying it can't go to space, or culture, or domination. We've not balanced the mod acceptably if it can't. Just saying that the games can often be called before then. I agree that if player balance works out poorly then that can have a destabilising effect. But for the love of God I am not replaying PB15.

[Krill]

Thinking about IND a bit more, the concern with allowing the stacking of National Wonders was that it would be OP. I'm not certain that's entirely true.

Stack Moai? An extra 14 base hammers.
Stack NE? 300% gpp compares to PHI making 350%, but that overrides all other cities.nthere are reasons to stack, and not stack.
Stack OU? Only really matters with settled GP and Bureaucracy which probably works out around 150bpt, but down Vassalage.
Stack WS in a shrine city? 100 got extra...in the Industrial era.
Stack WP? Just affects commandos, which is not a concern IMO. Stalin has Commandos without GG, De Gaulle wants SoZ or 2 GG. Everyone else just needs 5GG...

This would make IND more functional. Probably worth using in a test game, before doing anything else.

[Charriu]

The thing about IND is that your last major change is still being played (PB42). I'm very interested how the players took use of this trait there. I think at least 3 players had that trait there including yourself. Personally I'm still more interested in your variant with building bonuses and 100% on National Wonders then those duplicate National Wonders.

Something else that I've came up: Trait combinations.

I looked into all the available trait combinations and found some that are not available:

1. Aggressive and Creative
   
2. Industrious and Philosophical
   
3. Organized and Protective
   

What do you think about those? Should they be included somehow?

[Krill]

Part of the issue is the art stuff, which we don't have, but out of those 3 only IND/PHI shouldn't really be included IMO. The rest can be.

Regarding IND, we do need the game to finish to go over it, but sufficed to say, I don't think IND actually works in any of the variations. I'm thinking that for this mod version, it might actually be best to just revert to the base version, and run a new model for IND in a future test game.

[Krill]

Following on from PB41, one option to fix Meditation blocking the Astro bulb is to change Philo to need CoL as a mandatory prerequisite, and keep Drama as the sole optional prerequisite. That way Drama is necessary for the path to Philo and Nationalism, and Meditation has no effect on the Astro bulb... I don't see a downside to this change