[SPOILERS - PBEM17] darrelljs - Elizabeth of Egypt

[darrelljs]

Eh...it means we are willing to give them open borders with no tangible strings. Also, we are about 6 turns away from Writing. I can't think they aren't prioritizing it given they traits and wonder though.

Brief chat Krill and I had earlier on how to respond:

Darrell: one possiblity, not saying its the best, is to ask for rights to the location in exchange for open borders and a Gems for X deal at a later date. We throw in the provisoin of never launching an offesnive from that location and justify it by saying that its only 6 tiles from our capital so it is in our spehere even though its on our continent
Krill: but for how long an OB?
Darrell: the downside of course is they are alerted
eh
that's the rub
I dont mind it now, but if they start running away I'd loke to close it
maybe a cluase that we get gold/turn or somethning when they have a tech lead on us
Krill: I kinda dislike the idea talking about hte city site for a few turns
Goodwill is a straight no as far as I am concerned, but then, hey, sometimes it is worth a gamble
and OB are very easy to cancel...
Maps? Their map would be decent
Peace is lol
Religion status could actually come in useful
Gold is an interesting idea
but...not a bad one for a long term aim but we have much shorter term needs
resource trades...eh
not with that gems there
Darrell: the ideal situaition though is they cede the site to us without an objection, and I think OB is a big carrot
tbh, unless that's their capital, its much much closer to us
Krill: might makes right...

You know if they spam Hinduism for us we get only 1 gold from each of their cities, while they get 2 commerce from each of ours. That and the rights to the Dyes city doesn't feel like a bad trade. I do agree we are taking that site anyway, but it would be nice to have them acknowledge our ownership and avoid negative diplo modifiers.

Darrell

[Krill]

You know if they spam Hinduism for us we get only 1 gold from each of their cities, while they get 2 commerce from each of ours. That and the rights to the Dyes city doesn't feel like a bad trade. I do agree we are taking that site anyway, but it would be nice to have them acknowledge our ownership and avoid negative diplo modifiers.

Darrell

That's actually a pretty decent deal.

[darrelljs]

Draft Krill will probably hate:

Having been a GL owner that was forced to negotiate OB agreements, I have some idea for the market :-). We like the idea of religion priority quite a bit, since we do plan on building the shrine. We suggest the following:

1. Hinduism will be spread to all Straight Talker cities. Egypt will contribute in this endeavor by providing one missionary for every two built by the Straight Talkers.

2. Egypt and Straight Talkers will sign open borders. To prevent Egypt from joining in an embargo, open borders should be for an extended period of time, say 50 turns. In addition, Straight Talkers will be given an auto-renew option. If this option is exercised, Straight Talkers agree to balance out commerce income with a gold exchange. Egypt can conditionally waive the gold exchange requirement for renewal, at their discretion, either as a token of friendship or in exchange for other considerations to be agreed upon at the time of renewal.

3. Straight Talkers acknowledge Egypt's right of ownership for a city on a strip of Jungle east our core. The city will only be 6 tiles from our capital, however we do not wish to unnecessarily provoke Straight Talkers over a city that might be connected to their main continent (we cannot tell even with satellite mode zooming). Should the sad day come when our differences lead to conflict, we agree no offensive shall be launched from this city location.

4. To further prove our goodwill, we will also give Straight Talkers the first opportunity to trade one of their spare happiness resources for our spare Incense resource (once we have it available for trade).

Egypt humbly apologizes for the lawyer talk in this message. We prefer straight talk, but sometimes lawyer talk is necessary.

Darrell

[Krill]

I think you are trying to screw yourself out of hammers, but whatever. It's your game,and I'm reserving the right to say I told you so.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Just from a negotiating standpoint, I suggest offering less than what you would be willing to give up to make the deal. Don't just give the farm away from the start.

[Krill]

Darrell went from 1:2 on the missionaries to 1:4 with the possibility of settling on 1:3. I think it's decent but perhaps not the best possible. OTOH, I could be completely off my rocker.

[darrelljs]

Just from a negotiating standpoint, I suggest offering less than what you would be willing to give up to make the deal. Don't just give the farm away from the start.

In the version sent, I offered one missionary for every 4. I mean, in reality its free hammers for them because they are going to want to spread their state religion around anyway. The deal really is quite generous, for example that city site is clearly ours, land connection or no. I put in clause #3 to avoid giving them an unpleasant surprise. Its a pretty marginal benefit , with the downside being a) they rush a settler down there and beat us to the spot, or b) they angrily reject our right to it and we get a -4 diplo modifier instead of a -2, or c) we find we need to invade from there later in the game. So it was probably a stupid idea to put that in there, but as SL pointed out earlier, I have an obsessive need to make everyone like me . Or as Krill put it:

Krill: I'm just wondering if you are being a bit...feeble

Darrell

[Gold Ergo Sum]

but as SL pointed out earlier, I have an obsessive need to make everyone like me

Yeah, me too.

Lite PBEM11 spoiler:

I am playing PBEM11 like I want to sit around and sing Kumbaya with everyone, which is pretty much true. I am just too damn nice I think to ever win one of these games (in addition to my sucky Civ skills).

[Krill]

Possible dotmap:



FWIW, I think Green could get moved 1E onto the plains hill. It has 4 unique tiles, and realistically could just grow to size 10 and work cottages for other cities. Later on could get shrunk down or whatever and used as a rush buy pump (I've worked out that with Kremlin it's quite normal to have too much gold to buy everything you want). Green can easily swap on and off the corn as the capital needs it, but counting, I see yellow iwth fish, red with corn, cyan with fish, blue with sheep, purple with clam...means there is still a sheep to use for green.

Other option is to move green 1SW, delete Cyan and irrigate the tile 1S of the capital corn which isn't used anymore, and then there is only a tile loss to irrigate the corn for red. However, as neither Cyan nor Green are critical cities, there is time to scout purple out, and red/yellow are pretty much solid cities, red especially.

[Krill]

MM suggestion: give USSR the sheep. It should grow to size 2 in 3 turns. Brazil can grow to size 5 in 3 turns with just the corn and the flood plain. That means can easily slave out the wb in USSR for the fish workboat. The downside is that it loses food in Brazil, but that won;t affect growth times in that city for the foreseeable future.