[Spoilers]C6PBEM23: Krill sidles yonder, and probably fails

[Krill]

Turn 54

Still pissed off about this. Seriously pissed off.




Greenline is about to take Venice, and when he does I believe my trade route breaks. I don't think he can pillage the route anymore, when he logs back in I think it will be in Venice, if it doesn't move I'm not sure he can actually capture venice and pillage the trade route even if he pings it down to zero health with the archers. And then there is the question if he really wants to?

Ultimately, I am not sure that I ever had any option to interdict at Venice in terms of capturing the city state. With much better foresight and skill, maybe I could have not tried to push west and instead pushed east, and we could have had a rumble over plains hills. even 10 turns ago I could have changed tech path and finished Wheel and Archery and gone up to mess him about but I honestly don't see how that would help me in the long run, it feels like a negative sum move.

However, I am something like 11, maybe 10 turns away from HBR. I think I can get The Wheel and still make it to HBR in 11 turns. I can get Mil Trad done before then and get into Manoeuvre, no real issue. Greenline needs to heal and reposition, even if he pushes out two horsemen soon I think I can hold, or at least make it very bloody. He will see the walls land in a number of turns, but I'm going ahead with the encampment 2 south. The tile purchase costs 65 gold, and with the loss of the trade route I need to rejig tiles, but I should still have enough gold to upgrade three slingers. In fact the walls will be built without a chop, and that single Magnus chop should knock out two third of the encampment, then Greenline needs to seriously consider our relationship. A second Magnus chop should give the granary and then I can start proper tile micro to reduce production wastage.

I'm still looking at hte Dark age stuff. Free Enquiry in a dark age should give me an easy 5 era points or so.

[civac2]

What is the exact effect of the city walls?

[Krill]

https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Anc...lls_(Civ6)

Melee attacks have an 85% reduction in damage (edit: at least, that's my understanding from earlier games, god knows what's changed, the documentation in Civ 6 is dreadful), and the city gets a (ranged) attack per turn. If there is an encampment, that also gets walls and a ranged attack. The presence of a battering ram (requires masonry, cost 65 production, takes ages to get into position at 2mp/turn) regates the defensive effect of the wall and lets melee attacks hit for full damage. This only applies to melee (warriors, swords) and anti-cav (spear). Horsemen can't carry a battering ram.

Because Long and the Encampment will block the only path west around the volcano, Long can't actually be put under siege without naval support, so it should regenerate 20hp/turn. The encampment will also be able to attack two of the three tiles warriors needs. Because Long (and the encampment) are on hills, units would have to move into position and then give me a turn to plaster them with multiple archer and city attacks. A frontal assault.

I have three slingers available to upgrade to archers (I would only be able to upgrade two due to needing to buy the encampment tile), but without swords this attack is unlikely to exceed unless I play really poorly. By the time a sword could reach the city, I will also have a horseman so I can boost the city strength (which is based off the most powerful unit you have or the unit in the city) to the point a horde would be needed to get access.

I expect the encampment will be completed in about 5 turns. The walls I'm leaving until after I'm in a GA, so I get the era point for building them (it's a eureka for Construction, I know I can get 7 this way), this opens up the possibility of a Heroic Age in the Medi era which should be extremely helpful if I survive that long.

In short, the walls buys me enough time to do more stuff which buys me more time and just makes it a waste to attack me. But I need to do all this stuff anyway, it has an economic benefit, so I just need to dovetail everything together. These actions should not be considered a complete economic loss.

[civac2]

Seems pretty tough to attack early in Civ6. Maybe he only wants the city state? Of course, you need to be ready.

[Krill]

Yeah, that's a real possibility and one of the challenges I have is is to not overreact. I might be rationalising but once he sees the walls and encampment I think we can stabilise relations. He mightbe refusing in the knowledge I can't really do anything towards him (including settling forward) due to loyalty issues, so why do anything that makes me think peace is achievable via diplomacy?

So I'm stuck in the position of trying to make choices that can bend to either an urgent defense or economic growth. I need two guv titles into Magnus at least, really I need 3 and to be ready to spam settlers from Monks Halo ASAP. How to achieve that is quite challenging.

[Krill]

Ah no, greenline is coming for me come hell or high water. He has declared friendship with his only other neighbour (checked he only did this on T55) and he is moving units south, I missed it when I played this morning.

I have another ace in the hole which is going to ruin any attack with warriors and archers (but it's also something I need to do from an economic perspective so I don't mind doing it). If anything it puts greenline in a really awkward position. And it's not the final trick I've got in mind either.

Edit: 10 minutes for a potential "war" turn does not suggest that is an actual war

[Krill]

Yeah, this isn't going to be close. By the time greenline turns up I'll have a full kill zone in place, but I'll also have set up Long to continue growing with two chops finishing a granary (I really need the housing, the food isn't bad either) and the encampment.

I've also promoted Magnus to Provision for an extra 2fpt on the MH trade route. MH is now up to 8 food per turn and has a clear run all the way to size 8. I don't think I need Victor, but I've turned MH onto the Gov Plaza for a few turns so I can grab the extra guv title if (and when) I need it. I will move Magus over and time him to integrate for when MH finishes a settler, the trade route will lose the food but then new cities will need that to bootstrap up to size 10 so it's not a wasted title.

I'm down to +3gpt though, so one of the things I'm going to be doing is focusing on working the gold tiles. So improve the Longian fish and maize (ultimately it's also bait for greenline if he invades, it puts a unit in range of two city attacks and two archers. I'm not even sure he could reach it to pillage without taking one hell of a hammering) and keep a builder charge spare for eventualities.

[Krill]

Mechanics interlude

I've been troubled by district costs not matching the currently known formula, but I think I've figured out why. I expect many other players have already figured it out but I can't find it explained anywhere. In Gathering Storm there are more techs in the tech tree so the tech part of the formula should be changed from /67 to /76. Things don't line up perfectly but are pretty close.

[Krill]

Question for lurkers: does production start at the beginning or end of the turn?

[Krill]

Turn 59

I think everything processes at the start of the turn. This is relevant because of when stuff processes as a historic moment, but I'll probably just eat the turn delay on finish what I need on T62 rather than T61. I can confirm I will be making the Free Inquiry dedication




greenline is staking out the only viable city location between us. I've made the decision to not try and contest at this point: I'm going to be in a GA, and that area is all negative loyalty. If greenline settles past those markers, then he is going to be in a slightly dicier position, I think he will paint himself into a corner and have to deal with the fact he has a long border and no navy near me, and I can threaten a whole front, whilst having a solid defensive position. If he settles in that area then he gets all the good resources but builds a buffer area to fight in which makes it easier to hold in the long run.

greenline has not used any of his horse resources, so despite reaching his 7th tech I can't see an imminent invasion that I can't handle with what is already in situ (or I plan to build in the next 10 turns). He has limited iron, and a single sword would not be a problem (I could probably evaporate it between two archers and two city attacks) given what should be in place by that point.

That said, he goes into the Classical era in a normal age. I'd have expected more from Korea





I'm sticking with the hairstyle theme. I think I can bend it to the task at hand in terms of the terrain.

MH is starting to get a move on. It can finish the GP in 2 turns, and then at size 6 (with the trade route to Long with the new Encampment) it can two turn galleys with Maritime Industry. I can keep a galley and archer in Long, to benefit from the raised city strength and still get the two ranged attacks out of one tile. I need two galleys for the Shipbuilding eureka, and long shot, I could use the second galley to reach two other city states (if any exist. I need to scout, this is the most effective way to do it now. I'm 6 turns from HBR, but I may not need to rush out a horseman, so I am contemplating getting a builder between the galleys and GP, and then roll onto a horseman. I can finish the builder in 3 turns, which means I want to finish Mil Trad (1 turn from completion no later than eoT63).

Given that I will finish PP in 16 turns according to current in-game estimates (which are wrong), that would leave roughly 6-10 turns in MI (due to growth shaving a little off that), plus the reduction in civic cost due to era change. That seems quite reasonable, and then I would need to be in conscription due to the gold squeeze.

I want to cram in the Ancestral Hall ASAP once PP is in, so I do need to focus on how long it will take to complete the first horseman. The horseman should take 4 turns, as MH will grow to size 7 in 9 turns, eot68 and get up to 20 production per turn, which would be eot72. That feels late but that's with 4 turns building galleys. If I were to skip the galleys, then I would be stuck with a 5 turn horseman unless I rigged overflow. That would be a horseman eot69, unless I used Manouevre instead and that would lead to a three turn horseman. The problem is I would not have enough horses to then build a second and manouvre falls down. MI ultimately gives more hammers than Manouevre in this instance, and if PP cost drops enough (I think it drops from 132 to 108 culture, which is the 20% drop?) then that should land T70-ish. This is where watching greenline pays dividends, but also I may need to balance the builds between the two cities. I may only be able to build one galley and a horseman in MH if I want that builder.

For context in the quest to size 10, it takes 90 food to go from 7>8, 8>9 costs 102 and 9>10 costs 114. I need MH to get those marsh into borders. Buying the tiles is actually a net gold position after about 15 turns at current costs but I will not have enough gold to buy all of them. Once the Ancestral Hall is in place I need to move Magnus over to not lose the settler pop.





Long has been stagnating at size 4 for a while, but it's ready to move on. Unfortunately, I need to improve both the fish and maize for housing, but I also need the gold, and then I need a granary to give enough housing to get to size 7. And I need that Watermill. Here are the things that Long has to build for itself:

• Granary (no other available housing route that doesn't give too many farms to pillage)
  
• Watermill (not building that in MH, the farm resources are at Long and Long really needs the food now)
  
• Campus (The only way to give food to MH in teh quest for size 10

Here are he things that can be swapped between Long and MH build queues:

• Galley
  
• Horseman
  
• Settler
  
• Builder

I won't beat about the bush. I need more cities. I don't have any good locations, but there is one I can make work in the near term, it is defensible and long term it can get to size 10. Yongle doesn't really care about much else. I'm planning on settling on the forest to the south of Long, between the fish and Honey. It will be named Mullet.

There is limited Housing. I need to improve both the fish and the Honey, but at size 2 it can steal the marble to pop borders onto the crab. That's 6gpt I am in dire need of. It gives me the option to swap a forest chop from Long (but lose the Magnus bonus - it's actually not a bad idea if I wanted to cram in a monument for more culture or a granary to keep on growing to size 4, but I won't be doing this). This is one of the reasons I need another builder, as the Honey is another amenity to boost MH a bit (although I'm not sure would be improved in time to do much except shave a turn off growth in MH).

I have 2 builders left with 4 charges total. I need to farm the maize and boat the fish. I need to use one Magnus chop into a settler, and I need to use Colonisation - this gives me the settler in 1 turn with no overflow. That's 1 remaining charge, but I need two at Mullet and there is another forest to chop. This would mean Colonization gives something like 36 production, so it's obviously the right choice over UP for those turns until PP lands. I also need to promote Magnus to Supply to not lose the population, so I must do this after finishing the GP at MH (really the list above is a lie, the settler has to come from Long for this reason). This also means that I have one more Magnus chop that I can use. I could go for a fourth settler, but that location is the for western horse site and I have no units to cover it, plus it needs a builder. That will be later.

Right now I'm leaning towards using the third chop ASAP into a watermill. That boosts Long up to 5fpt (and another 1fpt from Magnus) and I can hand build the granary. The alternative, which is running a close second, is to just chop the granary (4fpt, lose the hammer, but it doesn't matter if I can't get the Waterwheel for a while as growth will not be slowed, just slow in general) but then build the second galley at Long. The challenge is lining up the builder actions with the policy card swap, the era change (for the dedication and era points) and that I can't grow Long until both the maize and fish are improved.

If greenline doesn't actually push that hard, then the right play is (I think) the watermill chop, build the granary, let MH build both galleys and then go into Oligarchy with Conscription (save 4gpt minimum)/Manouevre (Long can build the horsemen quickly enough at that point)/Urban Planning/flexible wildcard. Plus I can use Mullet to push out the pantheon (plus a random turns production at Long to help push it to completion). The Ancestral Hall takes about 8 turns to complete, but I don't think I can line up Colonization (nor justify sitting on it for that long; OTOH Mysticism will be a cheap way to rejig cards if needed, including picking up the GS).

If greenline does push then it's horseman from MH and a galley from Long (but still chop the settler).