[SPOILERS] Serdoas thread

[Serdoa]

Ok, it does not mean it has to be a starting tech. It can be that my numbers are wrong somewhere. Looking it through, TT can only have got a starting tech - what means he cannot have 18 GNP, as with -4esp and -2 culture he would have got a research of 12 - not possible if he does not use the fish (what he cannot without fishing and also it would be visible on the the demos). So, if he is the one which is researching a starting tech, scooter has to be the one who is researching one with a pre-req - but then EOT6 still makes no sense at all because he would have researched without a pre-req bonus for one turn. One of those two has to get the 17 and I cannot see how TT could be the one. He was still researching Pottery as by the score-increase in that turn, so he cannot get less then 18.

Bluntly asked: Are my assumptions regarding game mechanics wrong? I do not want somebody to tell me what they did but

- if you research a tech with a pre-req (like Pottery) how will the GNP be calculated at the end of the round where you research the tech (not the round you receive it, there it will count whatever tech you chose next)? Will it still give you the research bonus?

[Serdoa]

Ok, I guess I give up on demos now. Looking at the numbers from EOT9, somebody has a GNP of 21 and it is not HRE. But everyone except HRE is working on a 2/2/0 tile. It cannot be a tile which was improved by Hunting because then it would be 2/3/1. I also do not know any tile which would yield 2/2/1 at the beginning (and even then, why would they not have used it before and also I do not beliebe that our starts are different).

So the only way I see to get that number is to have more culture - via a monument. But only Ottos would benefit from a monument and they do not have Mysticism. All the others do not even need remotely a monument in their cap. And even for Ottos it would be stupid as they are still size 1 and have enough time till they need it for the happy cap.

[T-hawk]

Could the high GNP be from somebody researching a second-level tech with two prerequisites? Then that civ gets *1.4 on beakers. Example is Masonry if you have both Mysticism and Mining, or AH if you have both Hunting and Agriculture.

[Serdoa]

I had thought about that T-Hawk, but I am really dumb I guess. Maya has researched a tech at EOT 8. I gave them fishing and a warrior but it could be Hunting. And they have Agri. So they would get the bonus on AH. I have not thought about that initally. Still, 21 is somehow wrong I think. Lets see:

8 Commerce from Palast
1 from City Center
1 free
0 from tile
----------
10

It has to be the 2/2/0 tile as I tested it and with 4 in production I am still ranked 2nd, with 5 too and 5 is the highest, and as HRE goes before me in a tie it has to be HRE with 5. So everyone else has 4. The same was done with Food. And we do not have a 2/2/1 tile in our BFC (does not exist before improvements and even then I guess we would have to wait till windmills or so?)

So, 10 commerce. Add a pre-req-bonus of 1.4 and we are at 14. Add 4 for esp and 4 for culture and we are at 22, not 21. Ok, there is the possibility that Maya is not researching with 100% but with 80%. He would save two gold a turn and would research with 8 x 1.4 = 11research + 2 gold + 4 esp + 4 culture = 21. But why in hell should he do that?

That is the point where I get stuck. With the tiles worked, nobody can get 21 except they do something which does not make sense.

I guess I will have tomorrow and on Thursday time to think about it, maybe I find a solution but really, I doubt it. It reminds me on the first turn where I got stuck and could not get the solution till Krill stated that he accidentally gave HRE a warrior. It was obvious that something was wrong, but not enough data to be sure. Now, in this case, I know that there is no error involved, except for my part. Doesn't make it better, but at least I know whom to blame for

[T-hawk]

The city center can be 2 commerce, if it is settled on a riverside commerce resource like wines.

Grassland ivory can be 2-2-1 early on, though not as early as turn 8.

[Serdoa]

Yep. Though I would have seen that the center is a 2 commerce tile earlier.

It's really interesting. I guess I will have to do a sandbox and see how I would reach 21 at turn 8. But I am pretty sure right now that you need to adjust the slider for that. Probably I do it as a PBEM and play everyones turn as good as I know it.

[regoarrarr]

Ok - so somebody cares to enlighten me. If there is a draw, are the ranks assigned randomly? I remember I read somewhere about it but I cannot remember where.

I wrote about that in our PB3 thread (I think).

If it's a tie, then the ties are broken in reverse player order. I would *assume* (though can't be sure) that in a PBEM, the player order is the same as the turn order.

So if you are player 3, if you're tied with player 4 or player 5, they would be ranked ahead of you, and if you're tied with player 1 or player 2, you'd be ranked ahead of them.

Hope that helps!

[Krill]

The city center can be 2 commerce, if it is settled on a riverside commerce resource like wines.

Grassland ivory can be 2-2-1 early on, though not as early as turn 8.

Technically ivory can be 2-2-1 by turn 8.

[Serdoa]

Rego, thanks for trying to help. No, I have taken order for ties into account. I am first in GNP with 21 and second with 20 with 21 highest. So whoever has 21 goes behind me in a tie. Only HRE goes before me in a tie (I am 4 of 5). So Maya, Inca or Ottomans have to have 21, though all are working a 2/2/x tile.

Krill, for our game I assume that nobody could have a worker before turn 6 (and for that you have to be Exp). Would ivory only need 2 turns to improve? Well, and even if so, would somebody of us have a different starting BFC? More to think about.

For now, I gave up on tracking the exact GNP and instead try to rely on the GNP only insofar as to do some assumptions if it is a research with or without pre-req. I think I could nail down the techs everyone should have but I really have to test some of that stuff when I am back home. Probably on Friday if I can get a day off.

[Krill]

I'd be assuming a three hammer capital, and forest ivory/deer (2/2/0 tile), for a 5 turn worker, then move to an unforested ivory and camp, with a forest growing while camping. Or just use a fast worker.

If you are assuming worker on t6, then T-hawk is right.