[SPOILERS - PBEM16] scooter's thread

[scooter]

Forgive me for spamming a bit, but given that I hadn't really posted in weeks, I figure you all should let me off the hook . I had no plan in mind for a specific/large update, so I figure I'll just idly keep typing. If you're lucky I'll supplement that typing with pictures tonight. The truth though is that I decided from the beginning that PBEM14 gets top priority, so I've kept it that way. If you are reading this and not following that game, you are missing out! The personalities in that game clash so much that it's been quite entertaining .

So I've had some correspondence with MH, so here's what I got from him overnight:

Hi Scooter,
I still owe you an answer, I believe.
Given my non-involvement in the early beat-up-Krill action, I am on the good books with him.
He was set back a bit by the war with Serdoa, which allows me to be a bit more blunt in my settling demands towards him, given the presence of Praets.
Although I must say, I am not too scared of either of my neighbours at the moment, since I pretty know what they have.

How do you see long term relations develop? Given that we don't share a border there should be little friction.

Cheers
mh

If you really want a backlog of messages with him (there haven't been many at all), I can do that, but I'm guessing you probably don't care that much. Here's what I wrote back:

MH,

Yeah, I was not directly involved in the Krill stuff either, but he blames me for it, so I don't think he likes me. His mind is made up, so that's just the way it is. He keeps calling it a 3v1 despite the fact that I never declared war, never built an Impi (until well after peace was made at least), never sent a unit towards him besides a scout (not a warrior), etc etc. But hey, Krill likes to play victim, so I suppose I'll let him.

It's hard for me to say how things will develop. I'm in a weird spot - in that I don't trust Serdoa at all, Krill blames me for the choke on him for whatever reason, and Dazed is starting to look like a runaway. I've gotten along well with Dazed thus far, but we're so close that it is still difficult. I'd like to befriend your civilization, but given the distance between us and how early the game still is, that probably doesn't mean much at this stage of the game. The good news is that there's no reason for there to be friction between us, but the bad news is there's little we could actually do for each other right now. I'm very open to suggestions and ideas, but for now I guess I'm just trying to grow and expand as best as I can. What are your thoughts?

scooter

I'd really like things to go well with him, so we'll see how things go.


Dazed and I signed a border agreement, which should hopefully get us going in the right direction. He was a little unreasonable at first, but in the end things were smoothed over pretty cleanly, and we can to a moderately acceptable agreement. I'll try to detail that with screenshots later rather than describing it.

Serdoa asked me for a NAP a few turns ago:

Hi scooter,

We haven't talked much about PBEM16 lately. Did your discussions with Dazed about land get to a good result for you?

Also, may I ask why you spend EP on me - up to 67 right now I think? Together with you having the highest power rating I am a little worried. Maybe we could agree to a NAP till T90 so that we both can expand in peace instead of building up forces?

Kind regards,
Serdoa

My response:

Serdoa,

I tend to be very forgetful about EP's, but if you check, I haven't spent EP's on you in at least 7-8 turns, so that stopped long ago. I simply forgot to swap off of you once I hit 43 - I've been playing turns for this game much quicker than for PBEM14 as evidenced by the extreme difference in posts between the two games . As for the power spike, I finished a few Ikhandas (I'm Agg so thats my way to pop borders) so that's why my power jumped up. I actually haven't even built an Impi yet so you don't have to worry about those.

As for a NAP - probably going to avoid signing one for now, as I don't see any benefit. FWIW though, I don't have one with Dazed either, and let's just say border tensions are much higher with him than me considering that I'm much closer to him than you. But I have zero NAPs right now and for the moment, I"m going to keep it that way I think. I'll think it over though and I'll let you know if something changes.

scooter

Everything I said there was completely true, but about 3 days later I signed a NAP with Dazed so it's not true anymore . In fairness though, Dazed and I hadn't even discussed a NAP by this point. I seriously am terrible at the EP thing - reviewing this email from a few days ago reminded me that I need to swap my EP's to someone else in PBEM14! I hate the BtS espionage system.

Serdoa apparently asked for a NAP with Dazed at the same time and apparently Dazed gave him the exact same answer as I gave Serdoa without realizing it. He rejected it and his main explanation was "I don't have NAPs with anyone else and I'm far away from you so it's okay." Serdoa hasn't responded to either of us, however he's been quiet with diplo in general, so I'm not necessarily worried.

[pling]

Btw, the world map in your post about Krill's map commentary isn't showing up - neither in thread, nor via the direct link (I get a 403 error).

[scooter]

Btw, the world map in your post about Krill's map commentary isn't showing up - neither in thread, nor via the direct link (I get a 403 error).

Whoops! Accidentally used the private link and not the public link. Fixed now. Thanks!

[scooter]

Well, Dazed has continued to run away with the game... I settled aggressively towards Serdoa and I'm expecting him to hate me for it. Krill is at war with MH. So things look bad. Our last-ditch plan is this:

1) Krill and I sign a NAP til T100 with Dazed. It's T65ish right now

2) Krill and I take down Serdoa. Potentially we can get MH to join (his war with Krill is somewhat phony but for real reasons, but it's possibly fixable)

3) It then becomes a race to see if we can finish Serdoa off quick enough to use the extra land to 2v1 Dazed.


Chance of success: 20%

But hey, there was talk of conceding to Dazed already, so this is our only choice. Dazed is considering the NAP right now.

[dazedroyalty]

It's really interesting to hear your thoughts on the Krill choke thing. I can't remember how much I talked about it in my thread but I while I was the one that brought it up originally, I was never 100% sold on it (despite saying so in an email message to you). I would not have done it alone and it was only through our conversations that I warmed to the idea, believing that it wouldn't be me alone. I was very close to choking you with my bowmen and was pretty sure you were interested in the whole thing to prevent the bowmen from arriving in your lands. I consciously decided to bring up choking krill as a way of making peace with you instead, but it was really close to going the other way!

You called my invasion of Krill's land a weedy move but conveniently left out that I was chatting with you while I was playing that turn and we specifically discussed moving in with just a warrior and you said somethign along the lines of "I can't see a reason not to." So you can legitimately call it weedy but I don't think it's accurate to portray yourself as some distant bystander in the whole thing.

Looking back, I wouldn't have choked with just one warrior, especially knowing how uninterested in the choke you were. However, it does seem to have set Krill back far enough that it ended up being worth it. Getting Serdoa into it and the focus from Krill on Serdoa afterwards was really helpful. That said, I suggested that you talk to Serdoa instead of me because I legitimately thought we were partners in the choke effort--something that you clearly didn't think--so it would be better for both of us if he was involved and that he was more likely to be involved if you approached him. I would have to go back and read all our chats, but apparently our impressions of the agreement were very different.

[fire&ice]

great the game ended some thread this turned out to be . . .

[Krill]

Looking back, I wouldn't have choked with just one warrior, especially knowing how uninterested in the choke you were. However, it does seem to have set Krill back far enough that it ended up being worth it. Getting Serdoa into it and the focus from Krill on Serdoa afterwards was really helpful. That said, I suggested that you talk to Serdoa instead of me because I legitimately thought we were partners in the choke effort--something that you clearly didn't think--so it would be better for both of us if he was involved and that he was more likely to be involved if you approached him. I would have to go back and read all our chats, but apparently our impressions of the agreement were very different.

It set me back 2 turns on getting out the settler for city #2. That was just due to my starting techs and food res.

Irony is all I wanted were decent border treaties and I would have left everyone alone to build.

[dazedroyalty]

It set me back 2 turns on getting out the settler for city #2. That was just due to my starting techs and food res.

Irony is all I wanted were decent border treaties and I would have left everyone alone to build.

So why did you pick Agg Rome then?

[Krill]

Fear can be useful. That and I was interested in the barracks.

[scooter]

It's really interesting to hear your thoughts on the Krill choke thing. I can't remember how much I talked about it in my thread but I while I was the one that brought it up originally, I was never 100% sold on it (despite saying so in an email message to you). I would not have done it alone and it was only through our conversations that I warmed to the idea, believing that it wouldn't be me alone. I was very close to choking you with my bowmen and was pretty sure you were interested in the whole thing to prevent the bowmen from arriving in your lands. I consciously decided to bring up choking krill as a way of making peace with you instead, but it was really close to going the other way!

You called my invasion of Krill's land a weedy move but conveniently left out that I was chatting with you while I was playing that turn and we specifically discussed moving in with just a warrior and you said somethign along the lines of "I can't see a reason not to." So you can legitimately call it weedy but I don't think it's accurate to portray yourself as some distant bystander in the whole thing.

Couple comments on this that probably wasn't clear from my thread:

1) My comments about it being "weedy" is with a lot of hindsight... Because with hindsight, it was too jumpy. It sounded better than it was at the time, and it was with the addition of hindsight that it looked like a bad move. That said:

2) I'll admit that I was happy to push you to war with Krill because that did mean you weren't going to be fighting me.

3) I had a lot of second thoughts about it honestly, but the way I played this game was different from my other two PBEMs. I came into it with little to no plan and never really planned ahead... So most of the time I was completely shooting from the hip.

Looking back, I wouldn't have choked with just one warrior, especially knowing how uninterested in the choke you were. However, it does seem to have set Krill back far enough that it ended up being worth it. Getting Serdoa into it and the focus from Krill on Serdoa afterwards was really helpful. That said, I suggested that you talk to Serdoa instead of me because I legitimately thought we were partners in the choke effort--something that you clearly didn't think--so it would be better for both of us if he was involved and that he was more likely to be involved if you approached him. I would have to go back and read all our chats, but apparently our impressions of the agreement were very different.

Yeah, I was never particularly interested in choking Krill, but I figured one Impi was a worthwhile investment to keep the two most dangerous people busy with each other. I did regret the deal somewhat and think I should've just let it play out naturally, but like I said, I made no plans in this game so everything was just decided on a whim. It wasn't like I had a gameplan to keep you from choking me - I never even really spent much time considering it. That was kind of the story of my game - not spending much time planning which did really show in my play.