RB PBEM #1 - Gandhi [spoilers]

[Ruff_Hi]

Are those coathangers? Sounds like mh is countering your tiny bombers with tiny fighters.

I was just following up the tiny airplanes theme with a quote from the public players thread. Sorry if that's not kosher.

I'll go lurk now.

I had totally missed that spate of posts between Dreylin and mostly harmless. I wasn't about to click on the Dreylin link in case I ended up in his thread ... thanks for clearing up that it was a link to the public thread ... and yes ... small planes are always better, as long as they carry really really big bombs.

[Ruff_Hi]

And now for a strategy question ...

When I finally get this stack to Sparta, should I ...

A) leave my tanks in the stack (they will be top defenders for the first few battles and then totally worthless after they have been trashed)

OR ...

B) leave them 1 tile back (they can still attack Sparta the next turn) and allow my MGs and Artillery to take the beating

[Ruff_Hi]

• Cities:
  • FF: Cristo Redentor -> Tank [1]
    
  • LQ: Tank -> Public Transportation [1]
    
  • DV: Tank -> Tank [1]
    
  • BH: Tank -> Tank [1]
    
  • BS: Bomber -> Tank [2]
    
  • AC: Tank -> Tank [2]
    
  • TN: Tank [1]
    
  • KS: Bomber [1]
    
  • SL: Bomber [2]
    
  • MD: Bomber -> Spy [1]
    
  • EC: Bomber [1]
    
  • NB: Bomber -> SPy [1]
    
• Tech: Communism [54], +172g at 0% science, 422g in the bank
  
• Opponent Tech:
  • sooooo - Radio [29], 840g, +262g @ 0% tech
    
  • mostly harmless - finishes Industrialism, 147g, down from 486g last turn (negative)
    

You can see the impact of the bombing campaign on Sooooo's revenue. It will drop more next turn. He moved some artillery to Sparta but nothing else much changed. He is building Sam Infantry to hold of my airforce.

Operation Complete Bastard


Impact on Sooooo's Capital


Commerce at capital at end of prior turn = 54
Commerce at capital at end of current turn = 43

Remember, these figures are in a Greek Golden Age.

[Ruff_Hi]

sent this email to Dreylin ...

Dreylin,

I have started to move forces against Sooooo at Sparta. He has stationed quiet a number of units in his Northern coastal cities. I would like him to have to keep them there ... is there anything that you could do to encourage that? I'm wondering if you have any navel assets that can reach those cities, bombard and then run away and hide again. That would at least keep him in two minds.

IIRC, each city has about 5 destroyers, 5 to 6 infantry and a couple of MGs. I did see a galley sitting offshore last turn in his Southern city.

My bomber squadrons are systematically dismantling his capital. His Capital's commerce tiles dropped from 66 to 54 to 43 over the last 3 turns. That, and keeping him out of Representation should slow his tech rate down.

Ruff

[Ruff_Hi]

We chatted today and covered yesterday's email ...

• [COLOR="YellowGreen"]me:[/COLOR] just read your public note
  
• [COLOR="Orange"]Dreylin:[/COLOR] still finalising my turn post to thread, then will get to your message
  Or we can discuss here and delay my post further....
  
• me: guess my little message about the galley was countered
  
• Dreylin: Well I spotted it
  
• me: or had you seen it already
  
• Dreylin: for some odd reason he moved it out on its own
  
• me: checking the waters?
  
• Dreylin: I'm keeping close tabs on both sooooo's cities
  (looking for Transports)
  
• me: cool - if you can somehow show him that you are ... that will keep those units busy
  
• Dreylin: He also sent a Destroyer out for a view
  
• me: let me know if you want some spy action help in taking down defenses
  
• Dreylin: My Destroyer fleet sits 3-4tiles away from Knossos
  
• me: in a city?
  
• Dreylin: and my Transports are parked outside Sarmatian
  no
  in the water
  
• me: ok, but close enough to sail over, knock down defenses, sail back
  
• Dreylin: my coastal territory
  oh yes
  
• me: great - that should force him to keep forces on hand
  
• Dreylin: Transports can reach Knossos
  
• me: I have my paratroopers sitting in Shangri La
  
• Dreylin: (they are empty, but the threat is still there
  Has he started the stupid Para-gurad that mh has been using?
  
• me: and he has units in his capital ... forcing him to keep units in his capital
  
• Dreylin: Para-guard
  
• me: para-guard?
  
• Dreylin: My word
  mh has covered all possible drop sites with assorted obsolete units
  
• me: oh - v funny
  
• Dreylin: (around Augsburg)
  
• me: no he has not
  I am keeping his workers busy rebuilding farms
  
• Dreylin: If you see any Explorer builds, that would be the explanation
  
• me: while I hammer his towns back to bare earth
  
• Dreylin: Been doing the same to mh
  
• me: excellent
  
• Dreylin: He's been re-building 2-3Farms & a Mine or two at Vienna forever
  
• me: the good thing (from my point of view) is that Sooooo has really only cottaged up his capital
  
• Dreylin: yeah
  
• me: and it is very hard to rebuild towns
  
• Dreylin: I can't get at mh's capital yet
  indeed
  
• me: they both have tanks now
  so the ground battle will be a real struggle
  
• Dreylin: well, they have the tech for tanks
  
• me: true
  
• Dreylin: I have 20-odd waiting to roll into mh
  
• me: I should build some anti-tank units
  20! impressive
  
• Dreylin: mh has ~15AT in Vienna though.
  
• me: my early builds were all bombers
  now on tanks
  
• Dreylin:
• me: vice-versa
  
• me: can your bombing fleet reach Vienna?
  
• Dreylin: oh yes
  my Fighter fleet can
  I held off attacking this turn
  
• me: right - so these next turns are going to be very interesting
  
• Dreylin: because I calculated the delay helps me more than him
  Oh, thought of the turn:
  
• me: how so?
  
• Dreylin: Sabotage the Bunker
  before sending in the air Force
  
• me: good point
  can you take down a particular building?
  I will have to check
  what tech are you on?
  
• Dreylin: Re: delaying - he can add ~5-6 units to Vienna on his next turn
  whereas I can add 5Tanks & 4 Bombers in range
  
• me: I think I am sitting on Communism or Democracy but at 0%
  I might up my EP spend against Sooooo to help pay for these spy missions
  
• Dreylin: Plus I get to bombard his defenses rather than having to spy-explode them
  
• me: right
  
• Dreylin: I just finished Medicine
  
• me: which is good for ... hospitals?
  
• Dreylin: yep
  & Sushi
  
• me: ahh - you got the right GP hanging around?
  
• Dreylin: yep
  (actually just popped one, but also did that trade with sooooo)
  
• me: he has generated a number of other Great Merchants recently
  
• Dreylin: yeah
  
• me: when do subs come into play?
  
• Dreylin: I just started my first one
  think it's Ind
  
• me: he might be trying to run one over to mh
  maybe some airship missions to spot them
  
• Dreylin: Hmmm, Destroyers should see subs though
  
• me: that might have been what he was doing with the galley
  distracting you from a sub?
  
• Dreylin: maybe
  
• me: I'll keep my eyes on what he is building in those coastal cities
  
• Dreylin: Do Fighters spot?
  
• me: don't think so
  only airships
  can we still build those?
  
• Dreylin: don't think so
  & I only have 1 left
  
• me: shit - I just upgraded my last 3 to fighters
  
• Dreylin: Destroyers can see though, right?
  
• me: no idea
  
• Dreylin: So I just have to do some sweeps with them
  
• me: I'll go back over the last few turns and check what he is building in those coastal cities
  I will let you know
  he had a Merchant sitting around in the North doing nothing
  it is gone now ... but it might have been used for his GA
  
• Dreylin: OK, I'll work out what to do to spot them
  
• me: I guess if he does manage a trade mission, I could steal some gold from him ... I wonder what the EP to Gold conversion rate is
  
• Dreylin: Checked CFC unit listings:
  Destroyers, Airships, & other subs
  nothing eslse can see subs
  
• me: I've stopped trusting CFC a little
  most of the info is based on Vanilla Civ and it is wrong for BtS
  
• Dreylin: next time I'm in-game I'll check the Civlopedia
  

[Ruff_Hi]

re our discussion about subs ...

• me: when do subs come into play?
  
• Dreylin: I just started my first one
  think it's Ind
  
• me: he might be trying to run one over to mh
  maybe some airship missions to spot them
  
• Dreylin: Hmmm, Destroyers should see subs though
  
• me: that might have been what he was doing with the galley
  distracting you from a sub?
  
• Dreylin: maybe
  
• me: I'll keep my eyes on what he is building in those coastal cities
  
• Dreylin: Do Fighters spot?
  
• me: don't think so
  only airships
  can we still build those?
  
• Dreylin: don't think so
  & I only have 1 left
  
• me: shit - I just upgraded my last 3 to fighters
  
• Dreylin: Destroyers can see though, right?
  
• me: no idea
  
• Dreylin: So I just have to do some sweeps with them
  
• me: I'll go back over the last few turns and check what he is building in those coastal cities
  I will let you know
  he had a Merchant sitting around in the North doing nothing
  it is gone now ... but it might have been used for his GA
  
• Dreylin: OK, I'll work out what to do to spot them
  
• me: I guess if he does manage a trade mission, I could steal some gold from him ... I wonder what the EP to Gold conversion rate is
  
• Dreylin: Checked CFC unit listings:
  Destroyers, Airships, & other subs
  nothing eslse can see subs
  
• me: I've stopped trusting CFC a little
  most of the info is based on Vanilla Civ and it is wrong for BtS
  
• Dreylin: next time I'm in-game I'll check the Civlopedia
  

... Subs need the Radio tech and Sooooo is currently 20 turns away from that tech.

[Ruff_Hi]

chat with Dreylin ...

• Dreylin: Hey Ruff
  
• me: hi there
  sounds like you got crushed
  
• Dreylin: Y'know, I could certainly live without the public taunting every time he takes a turn
  I'm not sure though
  
• me: I think that is all he has to look forward to
  I must say that you have been handling it pretty well
  your 'for the record' post really made me laugh
  
• Dreylin: I'm debating suggesting he should use the metal to make coffins....
  or just keep silent and avoid another witticism in reply
  Anyway, after my turn unit losses were: 44 for me and 38 for him
  
• me: wait and see what happened
  
• Dreylin: he has a stack of Artillery (15) in a back-line city
  
• me: sounds about even ... giving that he is defending
  
• Dreylin: yeah.
  but he has few healthy units to take advantage of that
  I did lose a lot of Tanks
  
• me: really?
  
• Dreylin: (had to run them into Anti-Tanks at 50% odds
  
• me: I don't have that many to use
  oh - ouch
  did you have many artillery?
  
• Dreylin: had
  
• me: ahh
  well - I'll try my luck at Sparta
  I just hope that sooooo doesn't run away
  would like 1 huge battle where I can effectively crush his resistance
  
• Dreylin: Oh, he's offered me a NAP btw....
  
• me: Sooooo?
  
• Dreylin: yep, so he doesn't have to defend his Western flank and build more military
  
• me: wants to move his coastal forces to reinforce his mainland
  you had better have said NO
  
• Dreylin: not yet
  
  
• me: I really like that he has to defend 4 places
  
• Dreylin: just got the e-mail
  when you going to help out with mh then...
  
• me: well - see what he is offering
  what do you want?
  
• Dreylin: he's offering to slow you down
  so that you won't get a head-start on our battle...
  
• me: I pretty much think that he is already doing that
  do you see us going to war once DeTOG desolves?
  
• Dreylin: well you're going to have to stop my Culture victory somehow...
  
• me: and you will have to stop my space victory somehow too
  
• Dreylin: You don't happen to have a spare Great Person around do you?
  
• me: but I don't see us waring much ... we will be about level in production
  and I will not have any coastal cities so you will have to come via Death Valley
  
• Dreylin: fair enough
  
• me: I do ... an Artist
  but I am waiting to take Sparta and then bomb it
  
• Dreylin: fair enough
  I could really do with a Golden age ASAP
  my WW hit the roof after the end of last turn
  
• me: what do you have standing around?
  
• Dreylin: and someone else built Cristo....
  
• me: eek
  
• Dreylin: GM & GS
  
• me: and you need 1 more
  
• Dreylin: indeed
  
• me: let me look at the game when I see it next
  see when my next GP is
  
• Dreylin: mine is due in 8t
  
• me: and chance it will NOT be GM /
  GGS?
  
• Dreylin: 100%
  
• me: but 8 turns of huge WW will hurt
  
• Dreylin: 8% Prophet, 21% Artist, 71% Engineer
  
• me: you have built jails and that other Nat Wonder?
  
• Dreylin: Rushmore, yeah
  some Jails, but probably not enough
  I have cities that will be -11 Happy next turn
  
• me: I have jails all over the place (+2 happy plus EP)
  I'll ship you my artist
  
• Dreylin: yeah, UB
  
• me: prob will not take Sparta anyway
  
• Dreylin: you sure?
  
• me: yep
  what are buddies for if they don't help
  
• Dreylin: What is your ETA on Communism?
  
• me: I can prob do it in 3 or 4 turns
  3 turns at 100% tech but I don't have enough $
  
• Dreylin: OK
  If it had been sooner, I might have suggested I could hold out and use the GSpy
  
• me: nahh - take the GA
  he has been idle for far too long
  
• Dreylin: Will it reach me this turn, do you think?
  
• me: yes
  he was hanging around in DV
  
• Dreylin: Oh, that's completely awesome!
  
• me: and I think we have rails between us
  
• Dreylin: Muchas Thanks!
  
• me: np
  
• Dreylin: yes, I certainly railed to the border
  
• me: now ... do youknow the word pontoon?
  as in two baseball players sharing a starting position?
  
• Dreylin: don't know it in that context
  
• me: I may be using the wrong word
  
• Dreylin: I know it as a floating peir sort-of thing
  *pier
  Well with a Golden Age, my next GP will probably be in 5-6t
  
• me: true
  
• Dreylin: if it's an Artist, I'll certainly airlift over right away; you want him if he's a GE or GP?
  
• me: anything around to rush?
  do you have iron works?
  
• Dreylin: have IW
  Eiffel?
  
• me: well - you would like that
  
• Dreylin: (although is only a ~5t build in IW city)
  I would like it, but it would seem churlish of me to take your GA and then use my next GP on a project that benefits me against you only
  
• me: well - if you get a GA, gift it back to me
  
• Dreylin: It looks like the GPP rates in 2 cities are close enough that I could emphasise one to get better odds of an Artist
  
• me: if you get something else then you can play it by ear
  
• Dreylin: (might be able to get it up to 40% Artist odds)
  
• me: I'll start sacrificing the rubber chickens
  
• Dreylin: BTW, you're planning on usigthe GSpy against sooooo, right?
  
• me: settle
  
• Dreylin: ah
  
• me: that is what I did with my last GSpy
  actaully - he built scotlandyard
  
• Dreylin: Would Scotland Yard not be better?
  that's +100% EPs
  
• me: yes
  
• Dreylin: so a settled and a Yard is good combo
  
• me: capital is now putting out something like 35EPs all by itself
  or yard in another high commerce city
  
• Dreylin: Taking out mh's bunker worked very well btw
  
• me: I have 2 spies in Sparta
  first 1 will revolt
  
• Dreylin: (especially when I have 20+ Fighters)
  
• me: second will take out bunker if revolt didn't work
  I have about 8 bombers in range too
  
• Dreylin: nice
  does he have Anti-Tanks?
  
• me: most of my bombers are destroying Soooo capital
  1 or 2 at last count
  but he is building tanks now
  
• Dreylin: true
  ATs have an Intercept chance
  
• me: yeah - he used those at his capital
  
• Dreylin: only 20% though
  
• me: not very effective
  he also has some SAM up there now too
  so I have lost a few fighters - easy come / easy go
  
• Dreylin: yeah
  I did all sorts of juggling with my attack order last turn
  
• me: Sooooo's capital commerce is down from a high of 75 to 44 last turn
  
• Dreylin: ouch!
  
• me: and 11 of that is palace and trade route that I cannot do anything about
  
• Dreylin: double ouch
  
• me: he has 220% beaker multiplier there too
  
• Dreylin: no wonder Radio time is receeding into the distance
  
• me: yes
  
• Dreylin: Oh, I think I've worked out how mh is partly funding his empire
  
• me: and his gold rate is slowing down too
  
• Dreylin: he has IW & HE in Vienna
  
• me: overflow
  
• Dreylin: so probably gets insane overflow each turn into gold
  
• me: I get around 40g per turn from overflow
  wish we hadn't upgraded to 3.19 or I would have got more
  
• Dreylin: heh
  
• me: I've actually been thinking about changing some mines at my HE city to windmills
  
• Dreylin: Oh, I just hooked up a second Wheat BTW
  
• me: for the extra commerce
  
• Dreylin: I think I forgot to offer it to you
  (I don't think you have Wheat yet)
  
• me: I'll take a look at your cupboard and see what I don't have
  
• Dreylin: heh
  Oh, you don't have any Aluminium
  (very strange distribution)
  
• me: lol - Dr. Nomadic finally had a post deleted by Sullla!
  I saw that
  but I do really - look in the far North East ... that is my Al
  
• Dreylin: lol
  mine is on the Island
  or at Prague
  
• me: it'll just take me a while to get there
  
• Dreylin:
  
• me: lol
  hey - if you do not get a GA from your next GPerson - how about you agree to supply me with AL if I don't have it
  
• Dreylin: well once I have a second, you can take it for Mining Inc. ... until DeTOG disolves, at least
  
• me: so you can rush Ef with GE but I get my space multipler
  
• Dreylin: Hmmmm, that could work
  
• me: TBH - I am not looking forward to losing all of those hammers when DeTOG desolves
  
• Dreylin: heh
  well you should have all of sooooo's supplies by then
  plus all his health
  
• me: yeah - but not as many
  well - cannot complain really
  
• Dreylin: hey, at least I'm not taking back my seafood now to start running Sushi at max...
  
• me: true
  what civics are you swapping into?
  
• Dreylin: Oh, but I'll probably be in Free Market next turn
  Police State, obv
  
• me: Nationalism or Free Speech?
  
• Dreylin: not totally sure about FM
  Stay in Free Speech
  
• me: theology?
  oh - Sooooo knocked off theology in 1 turn about 15 turns ago
  
• Dreylin: I think so
  
• me: I missed it
  caste system?
  
• Dreylin: yeah, he & mh switched over in their recent GAs
  I'm still using Slavery off & on in my island cities
  Maybe I'll leave it at the end of the GA
  
• me: and with your extra food soon
  
• Dreylin: yeah
  BTW, I left it on Rocketry last turn
  (was either that or Democracy)
  but at 0%
  
• me: I have no real idea what I should be teching
  new war toys are miles away
  
• Dreylin: yeah.
  I ended on Rocketry simply because it allows Attack Subs
  and they may be needed against sooooo
  (and they already have the tech)
  
• me: ok
  
• Dreylin: mh is showing MilSci for some reason
  
• me: well - I need it too
  blitz promotion
  
• Dreylin: yeah, for your Space victory
  Oh, true
  but Tanks have that anyway
  
• me: our tanks have blitz but we cannot use it
  not really sure how that works
  
• Dreylin: really?
  odd
  I figured it was for Millitary Academies
  
• me: no idea - that was my impression
  could be wrong
  
• Dreylin: for his superflous GGs
  
• me: right - for the tons of GGs he is racking up
  
• Dreylin: my Tanks had used 1/2 move to get to attack, so I never got the chance to try
  he got another last turn
  but I killed one
  (his AT)
  
• me: a AT GG = ouch
  
• Dreylin: yeah, except it lost
  
• me: oh - how much of this can I post?
  in particular ... the first 10 or so lines
  
• Dreylin: oh, about the taunting?
  go ahead; I've made similar comments in my thread
  (I've started using it as an indicator)
  ... at least as far as silence = a good turn for me
  

Interesting take-a-ways and post discussion thoughts:

• after DeTOG - he is going for culture, I am going for space - will have to think about what I can do to stop his cultural victory
  
• Sooooo approaching him for NAP to concentrate on slowing me down
  
• me giving Dreylin my Great Artist - no culture bomb to bring Sparta to full defensive posture - guess I will just have to see about holding the city some other way - then again, I have to take it first
  
• I'm glad that Sooooo has to keep units in his coastal towns ... all I need now is a way to force him to keep them in his capital too
  
• it would be nice if I Dreylin decides to give me that Great Engineer - I could swap to Democracy and rush the Statue - synergies with my other trait
  
• I am still undecided about my tech ... Great Spy would be nice (especially creating a Yard for future EPs against Dreylin ) but the Statue would also be good - will look at how many turns it will take in FF
  

[Krill]

Why not go for both SoL and Communism?

[Ruff_Hi]

• Cities:
  • FF: Tank -> Tank [1]
    
  • LQ: Public Transportation -> Bomber [1]
    
  • DV: Tank -> Bomber [1]
    
  • BH: Tank -> Tank [1]
    
  • BS: Tank [1]
    
  • AC: Tank [1]
    
  • TN: Tank -> Bomber [2]
    
  • KS: Bomber -> Bomber [2]
    
  • SL: Bomber [1]
    
  • MD: Spy [1]
    
  • EC: Bomber -> Barracks [1]
    
  • NB: Spy [1]
    
• Tech: Communism [53], +172g at 0% science, 626g in the bank
  
• Opponent Tech:
  • sooooo - Radio [29], 723g, +210g @ 0% tech
    
  • mostly harmless - Military Science [30], 407g, up from 147g last turn (+255gpt)
    

oops - forgot to do the update. Now I cannot remember what I did. Basically moved 1 tile closer to Sparta and bombed Sooooo's capital. His base commerce at his capital at the start of the turn was 56. At the end of my turn, it is down to 44. Remember that that figure includes 8 from his capital and 3 from trade routes - so his tiles that were boosting that to 75 4 turns ago are only giving him 33 now.

[Ruff_Hi]

I forgot to take a screenshot of what I am building - too busy taking other screenshots for you! So, some of the stuff below is guessed.

• Cities:
  • FF: Tank -> Factory [1]
    
  • LQ: Bomber -> Tank [1]
    
  • DV: Bomber -> Tank [1]
    
  • BH: Tank -> Tank [1]
    
  • BS: Tank -> Tank [1]
    
  • AC: Tank -> Bomber [1]
    
  • TN: Bomber [1]
    
  • KS: Bomber [1]
    
  • SL: Bomber -> Fighter [1]
    
  • MD: Spy -> Fighter [1]
    
  • EC: Barracks -> ???
    
  • NB: Spy -> ???
    
• Tech: Democracy [3], -468g at 100% science, 832g in the bank
  
• Opponent Tech:
  • sooooo - Radio [17], 263g, +64g @ 0% tech
    
  • mostly harmless - Military Science [2], ???
    

Sooooo's capital commerce is now down to 36! Note that he spent a ton of cash on upgrades and he is only clearing 64g at 0% instead of the +200 or so from a few turns ago.