[Spoilers]C6PBEM23: Krill sidles yonder, and probably fails

[Krill]

Turn 69

Found Whosit.




In addition he has 5 cities, second city is size 6.

I'm not saying this game is over. There are lots of ways this can go, but that is a behemoth of a position. MH is still three pop and thre guv titles away from approaching the yield output, and I'm over 300 adjusted production from equaling his number of cities (and then I don't have the tiles to put districts on!)

I can't even settle 5 cities without going into tundra or desert.

Maybe next time small map with high sea level is better than tiny and low?





Settling further east would have gotten me one more city, but I think this picture highlights that it would have been a little challenging. Needs must etc.

[RefSteel]

You should play in a civ 6 game Ref. It's actually an interesting game. I'm not sure if you read the Canadian exploits in PBEM18, but there is always something to work towards, unlike Civ 4.

Sounds interesting (and no, I haven't read any of PbeM18 yet) - but I'm afraid there's no chance of my playing any MP Civ6: Even if I get access to the game, my schedule wouldn't allow me to play anything like a consistent turn a day. I'm glad to hear there's always stuff to play for though - good luck playing your way out of the behemoth-of-a-position's belly!

[Krill]

You should play in a civ 6 game Ref. It's actually an interesting game. I'm not sure if you read the Canadian exploits in PBEM18, but there is always something to work towards, unlike Civ 4.

Sounds interesting (and no, I haven't read any of PbeM18 yet) - but I'm afraid there's no chance of my playing any MP Civ6:  Even if I get access to the game, my schedule wouldn't allow me to play anything like a consistent turn a day.  I'm glad to hear there's always stuff to play for though - good luck playing your way out of the behemoth-of-a-position's belly!

Well, if you wanted to, that pace is actually prevalent in other communities such as the PYDT community, so it should not be a barrier to playing a game. I'm coming around to the idea of playing many games, but slower. If it's possible to blitz out the first 40 turns (when there isn't that much to do and you can plan the next turns play), I think it's a practicle option. And it should always be possible to use a "Starting sub" to get that blitz, be it a ded lurker who stays a ded lurker, or even a spoiled player following specific instructions.

We really should be more inventive in the games we will.

[Krill]

tl;dr of the potential bug.

I used Lilja (faith) in Long last turn and the faith produced was not added to me total amount. Now I'm not sure if it is added one turn later, in which case fine, but if it's just been pissed into the wind I have no way to unlock a pantheon short of using God King, which I do not think is an acceptable solution.

[Krill]

Evidence of the bug (and it's a bug whichever it's phrased, it's only how difficult it is to live with which is up in the air):

T70: Lilja (faith) project is running in Long. 11 faith already stored,





T71: opening screenshot: 11 faith already stored but now stating +6 faith.

[Krill]

Honestly, this map is trash.

I think Archduke is isolated from everyone else, I'm pretty sure Chev is over to the far east so there is this absurd three way fight, and I couldn't do anything to Archduke if I wanted to so he can build into hte future (because greenline will backstab me the moment he sees an opportunity. Meanwhile he has settled in such a way that there is a single tile to plant a city on between us. It's a pretty trash city in most circumstances but I have no where else to settle, but he has camped it with a warrior. Mate, you're going to win the game and I have no real intention of doing anything but playing sim city in a corner, so stop being a jerk.

Realistically I have to play a true, solid diplo game to do anything here. Looking at a Whosit naval invasion of Archduke as the only realistic intervention. I have a few other options but nothing that I actually like the idea of. That and the map has forsaken me in so many ways: I still can't find a natural wonder and I need the eureka for Astrology to get within 6 points of a Heroic age (lumber mill, mine, 1 more archer, natural wonder).

Should have played on Small and filled out more than 5 CS.

This game is probably the complete opposite of PB71.

[Krill]

Oh, some world news for players.

Whosit is the first player to meet every player, because there are galley paths across the ocean for him to follow. Meanwhile I have three separate oceans to deal with on a pangaea map.

On that note, my pantheon came in (bug report in the tech thread). I took God of the Sea because I have something like 11 seafood tiles to claim (not counting the stuff contested with TAD). The alternatives were Stone circles (worth it to build up faith@8fpt to buy a few Feudalism builders in a heroic age if I can get there, otherwise only stores faith for a possible GMC 2 unit rush. Cheaper just to build the units rather than the GMC...), or God of Crasftsmen (2 production, faith per turn), worst of both worlds. God of Festivals is up. I have zero plantations. Chev must have taken God of the Open Sky. I just built my second pasture and have a third ring spice to plantation.

Sadly, if I had taken GotS around T30 it would have paid back the Lilja cost by now and then some, so that was probably a poor choice on my part. Still. God of the Sea being the best choice on a Pangaea map highlights to challenge here.





Lovely picture of easy coastal paths and what is an annoying inland sea (for all intents and purposes).

Chevs score has flatlined. I've stayed in touching distance of third, I'm actually keeping up-ish with TAD in civics (I'm not really, he must be sandbagging or missing inspirations), and I think I'm actually doing the same with science due to hitting every inspiration and eureka. Chev isn't. Whosit has over double Chevs score up 4 techs, more than double the Empire score, up 3 civics...when I said that there is a three way fight potentially going on, it looks like it will be an enforced greenline+Chev v. Whosit and I don't think greenline will do that, I think he will do nothing and watch Chev get eaten (because I will not give him a DoF). So the question is if Whosit will actually pull the trigger on that route to victory: Eat Chev, force DoF onto greenline, invade TAD, force concession. He had double the tech of TAD but that's changed (probably card swaps etc)

Actually, TAD might be missing inspirations as I can't see that he has built a wonder nor is he likely to have researched Construction. So actually there are likely inefficiencies there.





greenline got his (trash) GS. The next one is Aryabhata. 3 random eurekas sounds decent because by the time I would trigger him I would only have 5 techs to trigger anyway (Military Engineering is a possible one to have triggered with an aqueduct build , others are Castles as can't get to Monarchy, Military Tactics (spear kill) Buttress (Classical wonder build), IW (damned iron mine). However greenline will get there first as I will not be getting a second campus that quickly. I think he is going to want that one, and I want to see what the next GS will be. OTOH, I could build Campus project, and checkign formulae I think I could just squeck by later on with one project. And the Medieval era GS are trash in comparrison. Yeah, I'll build this into the plan.

Also, greenline is unable to hold onto Venice due to loyalty issues even with a governor present. That's a likely urgent Pingala move as I think he had a drop in science when he took Venice. he might stabilise, but he is getting hit by both Whosit and I, and with the plan to grow Log relatively quickly...this might be a long term struggle, as Venice is smaller than both neighbours with limited opportunity to grow in comparison.

I don't know how the others are doing for era points. I'm either 6 or 7 short once techs are accounted for. Add in a great wall segment and I need another 2 or three. Find Chev, get MH to size 10 via Lilja and and that is the 1+2 remaining (if worlds first size 10 city).

TAD has the option to go for a religious victory here. If Chev gets snuffed out, Whosit has to hurry up and get a religion or there is no one to oppose TAD.

[Krill]

Think I've figured out the Campus project bit.

I've linked to a copy of the tech tree in the second post. The GS Arya gives 3 eurekas from teh Classical or Medi era.

The only eurekas I have left to trigger are:

• Iron Working - Build an iron mine (only classical, rest are Medi, cheaper to just research)
  
• Buttress - Build Classical or later wonder (want to trigger)
  
• Military Tactics - Kill a unit with a spear (can use overflow and short window to revolt into Land Surveyors and Agoge, overflow will give a spear, with archer support have a barb camp I can kill in the ice))
  
• Education - Earn a GS (will inherently trigger with this plan)
  
• Apprenticeship - Build 3 mines (trivial to complete, have 2 salt mines, need for Heroic age)
  
• Stirrups - Have Feudalism civic (currently beelining Feud)
  
• Military Engineering - Build an Aqueduct (want to trigger, as don't need an aqueduct just yet)
  
• Castles - Adopt a 6 card government (want to trigger)
  
• Machinery - own three archers (have 2, can upgrade a slinger or build a third, need for Heroic age)

Therefore I can guarantee the three techs I want to get the eurekas for, but I also have an option to build an aqueduct for MH to boost a capital IZ if I want to try swap around and use the GS to trigger Stirrups instead. This would allow me to refocus culture onto Civil Service.

MH can build the project. After it finishes the Audience Chamber I was planning to Lilja the way through to size 10, and I think it can get there around T86 or so. In those 10 turns I can research towards Apprenticeships, or more realistically Celestial Navigation and eat the lost era point from Astrology, and then it can build a campus project. That should basically put me in a position to use the project to finish the GS in around 15-16 turns, which also helps shore up uncertainty with the era points.

OTOH, if greenline gets handsy I will have to ignore the Lilja and probably build units but it looks like he is building the Ancestral Hall so he wants to be left alone to expand.

[Krill]

Turn 77

I did something foolish. In a fit of anger of never finding a damned natural wonder:










tl;dr, I had to turn off research into G&R, and the choice was Drama and Poetry, or Myst. I thought I'd put it into Myst for a safe card swap if I needed it. Then I realised that I was going to have an opportunity to use the double envoy card, and the Suzerain era points would be helpful, and it might give me significant map knowledge. Well, that didn't happen, but no one wants to capture Zanzibar, the effect is too good. And if I take it, then it's an ally behind greenline if he wants to be a pain (just look at Gwangju!) And I could use the amenity bonus, even if only for a few turns to help with growth.

Also, I really want to get Harbours down, and I just got angry that I wasn't researching Astro because of that damned eureka. Ultimately, Preslav is hard to capture and hold for anyone but TAD, so it's prbably going to fall to him, and it only has one ocean tile so unless I get shipbuilding and build units I'm not contesting that. So why not put the envoys into Zanzibar? What else can I use them for? Now I can go straight to Celestial Navigation which will take about 5 turns (for both Astro and CN). Then I can look at heading to Apprenticeship for Men at Arms.

In the race to get MH to size 10, I think, with the spear completing eot and using Lilja (food), plus the extra amenities etc, looking at growth@9 eot81 and growth@10 eot86, 87 if single things slips away.

[Krill]

Question for lurkers: how do you calculate upgrade costs? Is it 2*production cost difference+10?