[TECHNICAL THREAD] for rules and settings and blaming the organizers

[suttree]

Not quite cerrain what more you need me to say.

It's just that you say "This should be simple..." when it took RB several games (and a lot of bad blood) to evolve a consensus. It's not simple in the context of this game because it seems other sites do things differently.

If you want a desicion, I'll draw a coin tomorrow and that will decide the turn order for the next 10T. Unless parties can convince me about their right to act last this turn.

This seems workable.

[DMOC]

I am still traveling but in about 24 more hours I should be able to play my turns normally up until the end of June.

Just to clarify, here is what happened:

(1) I planned out this war for many turns, and decided that (like many other players in previous games) it would be beneficial to move second.

(2) I was traveling and thus do not have any time to dedicate to Civilization recently. I am not apologizing for this because I made it very clear when I would be gone, and because I can't control it when my original partner disappears without notice.

(3) Fortunately, Dhalphir offered to play the turns for me. This was great news, because I do not want to be the one holding up the game, so I gave him detailed instructions on the turn, but asked that he play after Bisons.

(4) In case you're wondering, I did request to Bisons that we set up a turn order. Here is the PM I sent a day or two ago:

Bisons,

Dhal (who will be playing the turns for me) and I ask that you end your turn before us (ideally, before we log in), because we have been playing in the second half for the majority of the past ten turns (including the past few).

I am copying this to Dhal as well.

-DMOC

But then I received this back:

hi

there is sure that i need to move after you in fonction of your move, since i see your land. so i cant move before you. you know why.

if you wan me to move before you. then try.
i want a confirmation too.
we sign a nap to 160 include ? ( for me it's yes, but i want to evade all problem to your déclaration of war. )

I know part of it is the language barrier, but I still have a hard time understanding the message.

By the way, it was my understanding that if we had played the turns after Bisons for all but one of the past ten (I think -- have to double check, and the one time we played first was becuase we had played last of all the teams on one turn, and I didn't want to hold up the game) we might as well continue that. Also, note that on t159 (this turn), Bisons did log in before us as well.

Of course, I am happy to work with plako and Bisons to resolve this, and if plako decides that he wants to fix a turn order then I will obey it. In fact, I was quite surprised to see that he was describing me as a "child" because, as stated earlier, I (1) attempted to set up a turn order and was promptly turned down by Bisons, and furthermore, (2) tried to get a sub to play my turn to avoid holding up the game.

I feel like I am trying to do the right thing, and it is difficult for me to negotiate with someone who says abrupt/abrasive things like this (even when considering the language barrier) when I try to act polite in my messages:

i dont care. i am able to wait the end of the turn if the pause are give back. i'm not concern to " we used to play after you"
the rule are simple : double move forbiden, and the position of the players are decided by when the attaker declare the war.

so if i am able to play second, i will make it . i am not the one who make the pause. so if someone want take out, he can, i am checking the game offen and i can make my turn in time.

I am happy to answer any additional questions you might have, though.

EDIT: Dhalphir can play the turn for me for the next 24 hours if needed.

[Bisons]

By the way, it was my understanding that if we had played the turns last for all but one of the past ten (I think -- have to double check, and the one time we played first was becuase we had played last of all the teams on one turn, and I didn't want to hold up the game) we might as well continue that. Also, note that on t159 (this turn), Bisons did log in before us as well.

in pitboss that's not an argument in fact. because before, i dont care when i can play. if i would, i did can played after you every turn.



for this turn, no rules. i perfectly can log in in the start of the turn to make my management ( at this time, i was works so i've manage my town and want to make my move later in fonction of your's, because the timer was at 20h) . i just no move my unit's. in a classic situation ( without pause ) you will have make your turn beforme me, because i'm actually not working this week. so i can play as i wish.
i note you dont answer to my question for the Nap.
for me, just turn off the pause. and we all played the turn,

i cant translate my idee corectly so i need help to translate ?

(((( le reste en francais car je saurai pas le dire en anglais si quelqu'un peut m'aider a traduire ça correctement ?

je ne peut pas imaginer être pénalisé dans l'ordre des tours, alors que, ne travaillant pas cette semaine, j'ai énormément pris sur mon temps pour être la pour pouvoir jouer mon tour a tout moment, justement car cela apporte un avantage décisif avant le début de cette guerre, notament sur le placement de mes troupes défensive, via l'espionnage. je n'ai pas demandé de pause, mais je la subit ( en aucun cas cette pause n'a arrangée mes affaire, sinon j'aurai parfaitement pu jouer le chrono sans que cela gène ). je n'ai pas non plus fait d'ingérance dans la partie des autres ou la guerre des autres alors même que j'ai constaté des infraction dans les connexion des protagonistes. ( après si aucun n'a contesté ce n'est pas mes affaires )

bref, pour ma part, je suis déjà sufisament frustré de voir ma partie gaché par quelqu'un qui se dit concéder la partie. pour en plus devoir concéder un désavantage stratégique alors que je prend sur mon temps pour m'investir et pour être présent justement pour m'adjuger un avantage de positionement. si j'avais voulu j'aurai pu jouer second chaque jours ( mes horaires de connexion sont avant OU après DMOC donc je jouai au plus bref pour ne pas pénaliser les autres ) . mais ce n'est devenu utile que depuis 2/3 tours.

bref, le traducteur automatique me sort un pavé qui ne représente pas mon argumentation ni mes idée. j'espère que quelqu'un pourra m'aider ^^" )))

[Krill]

I translated it first then used Google translate as a soft confirmation.

Bisons, I take it this is (basically) what you meant: You want to second part of the turn timer because it is advantageous to have it, and you have no obligations this week so you can play at the last second with certainty, and that you are using espionage so you have to play last to take advantage of this?

[Bisons]

for the technical part of why i want to play second, that can be resume to this. after that , that not resume all of my mind but a part.

[plako]

Tough one. I feel it is overall harmful to the game to try to keep turn order peace time. Other party might not even know that and game could get e.g paused because of this. However now there has been established turn order that would favor continuing using it. Therefore Both teams have reasonable claim to be 1st/last this this turn. Bisons seeing or not seeing something or the fact they can play around the clock is totally irrelevant. Lurkers, if you've further input feel free to share it here or lurker thread.

[DMOC]

Yeah, no matter what order I play in, it's going to be super-hard for me to play the turns at all, so it would be great if we could get a fixed ordering soon. Also, Bisons, I am okay with using Google Translate for French translation as an alternative for English if it is difficult to express your thoughts in that language.

[Dhalphir]

It's irrelevant whether bisons wants to continue turn order or not. He's already made whips and presumably some moves too this turn, so we should continue turn split for this turn. Next turn and subsequent, I guess if he wants to game us by playing after us and camping the timer, he can do that, but he can't do that this turn.

[plako]

If Bisons have already started the turn, they should finish it then 1st.

My ruling is that Bisons should play 1st.

[Bisons]

ok so now i can see how the game will finished.

i ask for a call for sutree. i havent more time for this .


i've one things to add :

it's part of the game to play the timer before a war. at this round, if there are a classic turn, i will have the time to play when i want. but there is a pause. so ok. after that i respect your wish. after all aswer the call, i will play my turn.

i will thanks cats team for all the discuss we had. i hope ive learn some usefull things to you =)

jay² sutree, i was in a good position to counter you but that will not arrrived



PS : i will played tomorow, near 10H GTM+1 Paris time. i think.